Unpopular Opinions You Hold About Animation

[Avaitor]

I've been wanting to do this thread for a while, and I've had a few of these thoughts going through my head lately, which is why I'm finally doing it now. There used to be something similar on tz, but that thread hasn't been posted in for a while.

Basically, this is a thread where you can talk about things related to the animation world that you don't see eye-to-eye on with the majority of people. It's not so much a "popular shows you don't like" thread, although you can touch on that if you want to as well. In fact, you can talk about shows or whatever you like that not everyone else does.

I'm going to start with a few myself. There's probably more I could do, but I'm in kind of a rush to head out tonight. To avoid repetition, I'm going to skip over things I've talked about before numerous times on here, like my views on South Park, Samurai Jack and Ren & Stimpy. I'm also not going to do any Disney ones for now, since I could dedicate a whole other post on my views on the studio.

• MLP has been getting on my nerves lately. And I don't mean just because of the fanbase. I always thought that it wasn't much more than just a little girl's show, just one that is admittedly better written than just about any other that had some funny moments. But even now, I think I agree with Thad 100% on his views on the show. The more I think about it, the more that every character seems to annoy me on the show in one way or another, except for maybe Fluttershy (even my other favorite, Pinkie Pie, has a gruesomely irritating voice).
  
  What gets to me is how defensive the fans can be. I don't get when some people call it the funniest thing to happen to TV animation since the heyday of the Simpsons. It just isn't that entertaining. I still like how nice it can be while still having a sense of humor and some shades of a brain, but that's all it really has for me anymore.
• Which reminds me, I don't get the supposed need for more good girl shows. I don't like the idea of separating genders by their shows like such. I think there should be more good gender neutral shows, instead of series aimed mostly for boys or girls.
• I think Adventure Time is better than Regular Show. That said, I can't get into either show.
  
  I think all of my problems with AT became especially prevalent while watching the gender bender episode. Finn's obnoxious boyish attitude wears thin for me, and Jake isn't much help for me otherwise. That doesn't necessarily mean that I'd prefer if they were both girls all the time (I think the novelty would get stale for me after a while and I'd find reason to dislike Fiona and Cake soon enough), but I just don't particularly like the two as leads or find most of the humor that clever. Which is a shame, since I think the world they live in is really cool.
  
  As for RS, to me it feels like the show exists just to create memes out of whatever lines they come up with for the show. I rarely get more out of it from what I've seen of it, even by watching the more recent episodes.
• As much as I like Young Justice, I'm not anywhere near as impressed with it at this point as I was with Spectacular Spider-Man or Avengers during this part of their runs. In fact, it hasn't really done much different that Justice League, A: EMH or Greg's other shows has so far. I have a feeling that we'll be rewarded by the end of the season and he'll turn it into a very special show, but so far I don't really feel that way.
• I honestly think that if Rugrats ended a lot sooner in it's run that it could have been the best Nicktoon of them all. Better than Rocko. Better than Avatar. Better than Zim. Better than whatever else you can think of. Watching the first few seasons again, I think that they represent the very best of Nickelodeon and children's entertainment as a whole. Maybe if it ended after the original 65 episodes or even the first movie I would give it that distinction, but I can't.
  
  Even if it ended with Rugrats in Paris, I would have given it more thought to be on our list, but it just got progressively dumber and less fun as it got along. It didn't have to, though.
• I know that Insommy's probably going to post about his indifference towards the Looney Tunes due to hardcore fans feeling "entitled" or whatever, but I just want to say that I kind of feel that way about The Simpsons. I actually have for a while, but I haven't really talked about it. I still love the first decade or so of the show and I always will, but the thrill is gone and will probably never return. It mostly annoys me when I see people like simpsin or whoever talk about how awful the new episodes are. I'm not disagreeing with that, but it gets old after a while to see fans STILL complain about "zombie Simpsons".
  
  This actually just came to mind when I went to Islands of Adventures with some of my friends this weekend and saw tons of Simpsons merch all around the park. I felt no reaction to seeing any of the character's faces, as opposed to when I saw things from various Marvel characters, Rocky & Bullwinkle or even Popeye. And that just saddens me the more I think about it.

[Commode]

^I know it might seem shocking, but I kind of agree with you on The Simpsons.  I don't think I'll ever be able to say that I'm indifferent towards it, it's had way too much influence on my life for that, but I am rather burnt out on the show right now, even the classics.  I'm sick of the mediocrity, I'm sick of Al Jean, I'm sick of "I am so smrt!", and I'm sick of people bitching about it.  Right now what I'm trying to do is ignore it's existence entirely*, which was something I was doing quite successfully until the (admittedly pretty cool)John K couch gag and the labor dispute a few days later.

*I suppose I should tune in for the 500th episode and the eventual(snicker) finale, but unless something interesting happens, I don't give a fuck about the show.

[Dr. Insomniac]

- Yeah, you're right on Young Justice. I've found myself rather underwhelmed with the early episodes, and can barely bother staying home at 6:30 to watch the new ones.
- Actually don't hate Bronies, or even mind them in any case. I mean, the weirder ones are just the most vocal. Really, I find the people who go out of their way to keep saying how the show sucks to be more unpleasant to be around than the fans.
- Both Brotherhood and the original series pretty much have the same quality for me. I think the fans who idolize the former and lambast the 2003 series for not being faithful need to get a broom out of their ass.
- I like the Looney Tunes show. I honestly can't see a clear diminishing in humor between the shorts and this incarnation. That said, it has a lot of "meh" moments. But then again, there were a lot of "meh" Chuck Jones creations.
- Batman Beyond had one really good season, while the other two years have scattered jewels around a land of blandness.
- Even when I watched it for the first time, King of the Hill wasn't spectacular. It was dependable when everything else was becoming crap. Kind of like eating stuff at Burger King when every other restaurant's closed.
- Cartoon enthusiasts bitching at people for watching animation aimed at children just reeks of hypocrisy to me.
- Yes, Richard Williams was unfairly mishandled with when it came Thief and the Cobbler. But when you take decades to animate a film, the executives probably have a good reason to take it away.

[Spark Of Spirit]

*I agree on the Simpsons, and it's still a fantastic show, at least the first decade of it, but I haven't watched an episode in well over a year and don't feel the need to any time soon.

*At this point, I feel like the only person on the internet who REALLY likes Young Justice and doesn't think it's merely "okay".

*I actually hate MLP bronies and the haters quite alike, I think they both take away a lot of my enjoyment of the show, which is why I stay away from almost any discussion on the episodes short of here.

*I honestly can't stand 'bro' humor anymore. At this point it feels highly dated and samey to me, almost like That 70s Show only if it was made in the 80s without the irony and oblivious to the fact it was the 80s.

*Otaku are probably the most singleminded fans in all of animation. They drop series like flies the moment something else comes along, leaving the real fans like us to support pretty much everything that isn't generic shonen or moe.

*I agree with Avaitor on Rugrats, especially after rewatching it recently. They hammered that into the ground.

*I think I hate adult humor now. Recently, any animated show with adult humor has made me roll my eyes and change the channel. The irony of adult cartoons with extreme humor was funny back in the early 00s and now it feels like throttling a dead horse with a Camaro. I'd honestly rather watch something like MLP (pitchforks down, guys), or TB&TB which both seem to have a lot more thought and soul put into them. Crappy animation isn't funny any more, either. 1998 was a long time ago.

*I think Generator Rex is actually pretty good. Surprisingly, even. I think the show gets a bad rap because of Ben 10's general mediocrity.

* I don't know what anyone else thinks of this show, but I actually like the 1990s Pink Panther show.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I agree with Avaitor on Young Justice as well. I don't think its bad, but if you've been reading my comments on each episode, it feels very average in comparison to what we've seen of Weisman's work before. And the thing is, the problem isn't too many characters or complex plots that become convoluted or anything like that. Greg Weisman is a master of juggling various characters and brilliantly characterizing all of them and also including complex plots without making them seen convoluted or pretentious. He's clearly juggled many characters with Gargoyles and has also done complex stories with both that and TSSM. Young Justice on the other hand is very simple and really even when it does get more complex it doesn't really do it in a way that we haven't already seen before. The action scenes are spectacular, which is what I find to be the best thing about the show, honestly, but other than that it hasn't offered me anything as a viewer that I haven't already seen before done better in another action cartoon. Don't get me wrong, what's there is good, but its far off from great, which to me is below par by Wesiman's standards (of course I know there are a bunch of other writers for the show, but he is one of guys heading the story if I'm not mistaken).

Another unpopular opinion that I've always held regards Pixar. Now, of course I know that they have a bunch of talented people working there and they have churned out some undeniably great work over the years, but to me more than half of what they've done is highly overrated and over-glorified to the point of downright annoying me. Now, don't get me wrong, aside from Cars I haven't seen a film of their's that I would call downright bad, but stuff like Finding Nemo or The Incredibles, among others, are just barely average IMO, yet they are treated like such high-class masterpieces. With Finding Nemo, I considered it to be a "cute" little story of father looking for lost son, but that's it. There wasn't really anything deeper to it than that, but people act like it does that sort of tale in such a sophisticated way when it really doesn't. Its just an average animated film, IMO. Meanwhile, I'll be honest in that while I can acknowledge it as a good film for those who like it, I personally don't care for The Incredible at all. I couldn't identify with any of the characters and didn't even really like or care about any of them. I personally hated the art-style of the film, and I felt that the jokes were just as bland and half-baked as a mediocre Dreamworks film. I could pick apart some of their other movies as well, but as far as Pixar is concerned, there are very few films of their's that I feel actually really deserve their level of hype and praise.

I guess I have more opinions which I will share later. I actually like the idea of this thread because it lets people go off about what their disagreements with the mass majority on opinions regarding animation, but in an acceptable manner without serving as flame-bait or giving rise to any local forum controversy. Its a nice way to talk about stuff that bugs you that you normally wouldn't mention. Great idea posting this thread, Avaitor.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Building off Pixar and sticking with Disney, I haven't really enjoyed an animated Disney show in... I think a decade. Though I have liked a number of their films, their TV animation department is currently the worst in the business by far. Their shows feel generic both in style and humor, and any of them could be on CN of Nick and nobody would even bat an eye. Phineas & Ferb also suffers from this problem, and is quite highly overrated by the fanbase- When you have fans praising a memory wipe episode, you know there's something off. Whoever is in charge needs to lose their job or get demoted or something, because Disney's crown jewel and bread & butter has always been their animation. To see it fall so very far is embarrassing.

[Daxdiv]

Apparently liking Doug is a sin for some reason, however I still enjoy this show from watching it on the 90's Are All That block. It's still the same show I loved when I was a kid and I still like Doug's crazy imagination. Have no opinion on the Disney version since it's been a while since I saw it.

I still enjoy Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Really, I still do and love to watch the repeats whenever I can. I can agree that most of the characters are jerks and all, but that's what makes it work for me. I just love the things Master Shake does and says. My favorite moment will still be the episode where he was in tree court and made things even worse.

I still watch the Cleveland Show, even though out of the MacFarlane animation output it's my least favorite.

[Rynnec]

I don't care for Young Justice all that much personally. I enjoy it, and try to watch an episode whenver it airs, but I'm not really invested in it.

As much as I liked Sym-bionic Titan, and think its cancellation was entirely unfair. I feel that its a bit overrated. It certainly isn't the best Super Robot show.

I really don't care much for the recent 80's reboots (Transformers Prime, GI Joe Renegades, and Thundercats) something about them just feels bland to me (and in GI Joe's case, I never cared much for it outside of Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow).

I'm really not as hard on generic shounen or Moe shows as most other non-loser Otaku are. As long as I enjoy the fights, and the characters, then I'm good.

I actually enjoyed what I've seen of X-Men Evolution more than what I've seen of the 90's cartoon.

Sonic Satam is overrated as all hell by its fanbase. And I feel that the games have infinitely superior characers and storylines (most of the time). The fact that Sonic 3 & Knuckles' awesome story never got an animated adaptation is such a shame.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, I've said this before but I believe it fits here as well:

I think that Batman: The Animated Series is "kind of" overrated. Now hold on; before you all get your pitchforks out I fully agree with it being one of the best animated series of all-time....from an influential stand-point. Hell, its still one of the best action cartoons of all-time, regardless, and its still a great show in general (I mean, I wouldn't have written for it on our top 65 list if I didn't agree with its deservedly high placement on our list). So then why do I say its slightly overrated?

Well, to me its because of how people also let nostalgia get the better of them and that combined with the fact that the show is genuinely good makes people blindly believe that it can't be topped. One thing that bugged me about Doug Walker's video of his top 20 favorite TV shows was how he said that no other show after this was successful at creating a suitably dark tone and often-times when they tried to do that it felt forced as if they were pale imitators of what BTAS achieved. That's just pure biased BS, IMO. BTAS is great, no question, and thanks to it so many series could jump from being boringly kid-friendly to actually introducing kids to complex plots with mature themes and characters. In that regard its a gateway title that really changed cartoons as we know them. However I hate this notion that so many fans of the show have that the series is some how a gold standard which can't be topped by anything and never will be. Because it was so influential, other shows were able to take after it and create great stories of their own, and for that it'll always be the most important action cartoon of all time, but why the hell do some people act like its blasphemy to think that anything out there that came after it could possibly be even just a little bit better than it?

I'll be flat-out honest, I think that Gargoyles is a better show. I think it managed to take what was great about BTAS and surpass it at its own game. Only slightly, mind you, but still noticeably enough. It was just as dark but also far more consistent and had a very well strewn-together story and characters, overall.

That's the other thing that I don't like about certain BTAS fans (I say "certain" because I'm a fan myself, and so are other people here, but I'm talking about the biased ones), in that I hate how they act like the show is perfect and imperveous to any criticism. The series has a number of a weak episodes and some questionably bad ones in its run, and its not like every episode it ever done was pure gold. Not every episode of it was as emotionally gripping as Heart of Ice (not even most of them, for that matter), or as in-depth as I Am The Night. It still had its mix of mediocre episodes as well. So, for all of the great things it has going for it, its still not perfect.

I guess all I'm trying to say here is that, while BTAS is an undeniably great series (and like I said, I'm a fan so it'd still easily make my own personal top 10 list), I really hate how there seem to be so many fans who treat anyone who dares to say otherwise like an idiot. And by otherwise I mean something as slight as having an opinion on some other action cartoons or superhero shows that one might thing managed to surpass it to any degree. That's just the way I feel, anyways. If I were to be perfectly honest I think that TSSM is my favorite superhero show by a bit, but like I said taking my gripes aside I still find BTAS to be be worthy of most of its praise and its still an amazing show, even if some people overrate it to the point of acting like nothing else is good in comparison to it.

[Mr. Big]

While I can see the appeal of "Adventure Time", I can never get into it. I'm not a big fan of the art style, which is odd because I'm very big on minimalist styles (hell, look at my own drawings). But AT bugs me for some reason. I love "Regular Show", though.

However, I don't see the appeal of "Phineas and Ferb". I respect Swampy and Povenmire for their work on "Rocko", but I find their show to be annoying. To me it's just another asinine kids show.

[Avaitor]

*I suppose I should tune in for the 500th episode and the eventual(snicker) finale, but unless something interesting happens, I don't give a fuck about the show.

That's what I'm doing too.

- Batman Beyond had one really good season, while the other two years have scattered jewels around a land of blandness.

I'd actually agree with this, and I think I've posted about it before. The first season is probably the most consistent of any DCAU show, but the second had too many lame school-based plots and weird science fiction-influenced arcs that weren't any special, while the good ones were harder to find in retrospect. Season 3 was an improvement, but still wasn't on the level on the first season.

As much as I liked Sym-bionic Titan, and think its cancellation was entirely unfair. I feel that its a bit overrated. It certainly isn't the best Super Robot show.

I really don't care much for the recent 80's reboots (Transformers Prime, GI Joe Renegades, and Thundercats) something about them just feels bland to me (and in GI Joe's case, I never cared much for it outside of Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow).

I actually enjoyed what I've seen of X-Men Evolution more than what I've seen of the 90's cartoon.

Completely agreed with these 3. Granted, I haven't really been watching too many 80's reboots, but I'm just sick of the fad as a whole. It really seems to me that we're going back to that decade in animation, since it seems like just about every series that is being made is either a remake of an older series or an interpretation of a pre-existing franchise. Original ideas in kids shows, at least particularly good ones, are becoming fewer and fewer as of late.

Sonic Satam is overrated as all hell by its fanbase. And I feel that the games have infinitely superior characers and storylines (most of the time). The fact that Sonic 3 & Knuckles' awesome story never got an animated adaptation is such a shame.

After watching SatAM recently, I do think that it doesn't hold up as well as some fans believe it to (granted, I can't fucking stand Jaleel White as Sonic or his "mondo writing", but I can blame the show for that) and isn't that great of a show. I still have attachments to the characters on the show though, if only for the comics, which I find far superior. Even Antoine, who pissed me off to no end in the show, gets some fair development in the comics when he gets a sword and gets over Sally by dating Bunnie.

Oh, here's another-

Building off on my comments on Adventure Time and Regular Show, I hate the new TV-PG standard on CN. Those two are really the only ones to use it besides for MAD and parts of Titan when it was on, but I find it annoying when these shows use minor swear words only for the shows to seem "edgy". And honestly, a lot of other shows that have the rating on the network don't even do anything to earn one (TLTS and Young Justice, I'm looking at you).

It seems like they're adding the rating to just about every show on the channel to make them look naughtier or something than what's on Nick and Disney in hopes that kids tune in, and it doesn't look to be working as well as they'd hope. I wouldn't even mind that if they weren't so obnoxious about it either.

And I've written about this before, but I still stand by my belief that As Told By Ginger could be a great show at times, but just steered too close to mediocre or average for the majority of its run. The creator seemed quite into it, but I think she made too many "safe" episodes for its own good.

Heh, EK's Pixar post makes me want to expand on it and go into my own thoughts on them and Disney. I would but I have class in about a half hour and don't have the time to. I would probably skip my opinion on their animated series, since I've gone so far into them as of late, but I have tons of things to say about the studio.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Why stop and BTAS and Batman Beyond? I think the entire DCAU minus Superman is at least a little overrated in some aspects. I love pretty much every show there, but they all have their faults. Superman just gets looked down on for being Superman despite being every bit as good as the other shows.

Apparently liking Doug is a sin for some reason, however I still enjoy this show from watching it on the 90's Are All That block. It's still the same show I loved when I was a kid and I still like Doug's crazy imagination. Have no opinion on the Disney version since it's been a while since I saw it.

Agreed. As usual, since a popular internet figure has declared his dislike for something, everyone must jump on the hate train. Doug may not be the best thing Nick ever aired, but it's still a unique show with tons of charm. I'm saying this as someone who barely remembers it and watched a bunch of it recently. The show is still fun to watch.

[Avaitor]

Oh, Justice League is incredibly inconsistent. I could go on all day about what works and what doesn't for the show. And S:TAS doesn't really pick up for me until the last volume of the show. Beforehand, it's either too much of a villain-of-the-week show for me or uses Lex too much. It's admittedly more consistent than the other 3 of the main DCAU shows though.

As for Doug, I loved it as a kid, but it doesn't hold up for me all that much and I've thought this before NC's review of Doug's First Movie. That said, it really isn't fair to hold the Nick and Disney versions in the same light since there's a major difference in quality between the two, but it seems like some people do.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I don't even remember the Disney version at all. Didn't they have one episode based on anorexia or something? That should about say it all.

Also, you all know this, but I don't "get" Beavis & Butthead. Yes they're based on idiots in the 90s who really existed, yes they're dumb, and yes they make fun of dumb stuff. But I don't think the writing is all the good, and their voices get on my nerves after about five minutes. As far as anything Mike Judge has ever done, it's probably my least favorite just because it relies too much on "getting it" compared to anything else he's done.

As for other 90s shows, I enjoy TTA way more than Animaniacs on average, but I don't know if that's a popular opinion or not.

[Daxdiv]

I don't even remember the Disney version at all. Didn't they have one episode based on anorexia or something? That should about say it all.

Yeah they did. I think the episode ended with some hot line number and/or website you could call/visit or something for more info about the episode. It felt weird seeing that episode when I was young.

I still try to separate Disney's and Nick's Doug since the quality is clearly different.

As for other 90s shows, I enjoy TTA way more than Animaniacs on average, but I don't know if that's a popular opinion or not.

Most people seem to hold Animaniacs as the best thing in the Silver Age, so I'll give you this one. Everyone seems to clamor more to A! than TTA.