A Tribute To The Wii

[talonmalon333]

What hate? Several people have said there are things about it that don't feel right to them and we're trying to figure out what that is. I feel its the lack of atmosphere which comes through the music and the rocket barrel levels which I don't like, others think its the lack of Kremlings, or the pre-rendered look.

I don't think anyone has called it a bad game.

I didn't mean literal hate.

But earlier you talked about how the atmosphere is worse cause it's more "jungle" than "DKC" (or at least I think you're the one who did). To be honest, I  think it's good that they gave DKCR an atmosphere of it's own, rather than attempting (most likely in vain) to replicate the aesthetics of the classics.

[Spark Of Spirit]

What hate? Several people have said there are things about it that don't feel right to them and we're trying to figure out what that is. I feel its the lack of atmosphere which comes through the music and the rocket barrel levels which I don't like, others think its the lack of Kremlings, or the pre-rendered look.

I don't think anyone has called it a bad game.

I didn't mean literal hate.

But earlier you talked about how the atmosphere is worse cause it's more "jungle" than "DKC" (or at least I think you're the one who did). To be honest, I  think it's good that they gave DKCR an atmosphere of it's own, rather than attempting (most likely in vain) to replicate the aesthetics of the classics.

The game felt the most like DKC to me during levels like the rising tide ones, or the circular giant log platforming in the forest. Quiet, yet dangerous. Slow paced, yet with fast movement. It's hard to describe, but that's what I think is the "DKC feeling". I don't even think they did it worse than the originals, I think if more levels were as amazing as those, they might have surpassed DKC2 to me, but the heavy use of rocket barrels and things exploding everywhere kind of took away from that feeling.

That said, I do think it is as good as the original trilogy, but falls short of besting them.

[Rosalinas Spare Wand]

I get what Desen's trying to point out. I think the biggest offender in this case is the Mine Cart levels. They were very uncommon in the original trilogy, and the ones that we remember were challenging because of how little control you had in the direction you were headed. There wasn't much of an obstacle aside from avoiding pitfalls and the occasional enemy cart. They were simple yet difficult.

Returns threw that out the window with their cart levels. They added far more than the usual ones, and they threw in a crapload more enemies and obstacles to overcome. I enjoyed a ridiculous challenge like trying to stay safe within a cracking egg, but its at the far end of what the Rareware cart levels were. I'm sure a lot of people found them to be much more of a chore because you had to remain aware of every single thing on screen.

[Spark Of Spirit]

The biggest issue with the cart levels, to me, were that they were straight up one hit kills. I distinctly remember in the old games getting hit once and getting a bit annoyed, but still hopeful because I had another Kong with me. In DKCR, it's like I'm on pins and needles the entire time because there's no margin for error. That isn't to say I didn't enjoy them, I liked the egg one you're talking about for instance, but they felt different in execution than the ones in the old games for a few reasons.

The only design decision (other than rocket barrel levels which are divisive) I outright thought was bad was just generally how the game treats Diddy. Like you fall in a pit and lose Diddy (this didn't happen in the old games), if you lose Diddy in a K level you have to leave the level to get him back again because some levels have DK barrels at the beginning and some don't (I hate that inconsistency), and how he doesn't even give the player an extra hit in the rocket barrel or mine cart levels. Those seem like silly oversights to me that add unneeded difficulty to the game as opposed to the actual challenge the levels offer. For example, the final level is pretty dumb if you lose Diddy, since you literally have to exit the level to get him back (because there is again no DK barrel at the checkpoint!) which is quite annoying if you just aren't good at boss battles and want the alternate ending.

All my issues with DKCR are all minor issues. It is a very, very, well put together game. But I do think there were things that could have been done better.

[talonmalon333]

How would you say it compares to the original three games, individually?

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I'm jealous of all of you. I still have yet to play DKCR. Even if it doesn't have the same feel as the originals (which is kind of a given since its developed by a completely different team), it still looks like a damn fine game and from what I have seen of the game it at least carries over the most important core elements of what made classic DKC games fun, while adding its own flavor into the mix. And really I wouldn't have it any other way, personally. The classic DKC games were the works of the team at Rare. It would be stupid of Retro to just try and rehash exactly what Rare did, so its good that they added their own things into the mix for a fresh experience of their take on a DKC game, even if that consequently might give the game some its own flaws (but really, what game is there that's immune to having at least some noteworthy flaws?).

[Spark Of Spirit]

The thing with the flaws is that they're kind of silly flaws. There's nothing gamebreaking about them, its just kind of a head-scratcher as to why they're there at all. If they do a sequel, I doubt they'll even be there anymore.

How would you say it compares to the original three games, individually?

On their own merits?

I think It does a lot of things better than DKC1. DKC1's faults are that it's too short, and the bosses are terrible. DKCR is really long, and has decent bosses (those crabs and the final boss are annoying, though)... DKCR manages to retain the same style of themes (lack of snow and swimming levels aside) and in many cases does them better. The factory levels, for instance, are WAY better in DKCR. The factory gimmicks in DKC1 are usually pretty tame and superficial. But the mine cart levels were better in 1, as were the cave levels (way better aesthetics in lighting and mood), and the swimming levels were more fun than the rocket barrel levels. As a whole, I would probably give it to DKCR over 1, but some days I might feel differently.

DKC2... No contest on this one. DKC2 is one of the best games of all time (at least, IMO) and Retro would have to have nailed it out of the park on their first attempt to topple it, in my mind. I think this is the most atmospheric platformer I've ever played- abandoned, crumbling pirate ships over black seas, lightly simmering volcanoes with crystal caverns in place of moats, a dead zombie carnival next to a backwoods swamp full of unknown creatures and fields, cliffs full of dead plant life, and a steam punk air fortress run by a deranged captain. It really had its own style. Other than that, the gameplay and level design was tighter than 1. More platforming, more gimmicks, a higher challenge, more secrets, one of the best game soundtracks ever, and better bosses. DKCR really has nothing on DKC2 as a whole, though it does come close particularly in worlds 4 through 7.

But last we have DKC3. This has always been the oddball of the series to me, but as a platformer, I would probably put DKCR above it. Not to say it isn't a great game (because it is), but there are a few too many gimmicks and unneeded minigames and one pretty lousy boss (featuring the animal that took Rambi's slot! Grr) sort of bring it down a bit. Also the lack of DK or Diddy in place of the worst baby to ever grace a platformer make it a little less fun to play. But at its best it does compare with the others. The GBA soundtrack is pretty great, but the SNES soundtrack really makes the game feel a lot more dull than it actually is. But it's probably the weakest link in the series. That said, I sometimes enjoy it more than 1.

One thing that's missing other than "atmosphere" from DKCR, is the humor of the dialogue. Cranky just wasn't very funny in DKCR, and the lack of Funky really hurt. Seriously, the cast was really pared down here. All the animal buddies are gone (to make the swimming levels "faster" they could have just made you forced to use Enguarde for the whole thing), all the Kongs are missing, and yes the Kremlings are nowhere to be found. Having K.Rool burst out of the final boss at the end would have been great, but alas. Superficial things, but they would have added a lot to the game.

[Spark Of Spirit]

But other than DKCR, how about that new Kirby platformer? What did you guys think about Return To Dreamland? Someone called it a generic Kirby game on TZ, but I totally disagree with that. It's way beyond Adventure, 64, or the 3 Dreamland games, and even manages to match Kirby Superstar in variety of powers. I don't think people gave it enough of a chance, but it's a really phenomenal game.

And beating it on hard mode? Good luck with that.

[talonmalon333]

One thing that's missing other than "atmosphere" from DKCR, is the humor of the dialogue. Cranky just wasn't very funny in DKCR, and the lack of Funky really hurt. Seriously, the cast was really pared down here. All the animal buddies are gone (to make the swimming levels "faster" they could have just made you forced to use Enguarde for the whole thing), all the Kongs are missing, and yes the Kremlings are nowhere to be found. Having K.Rool burst out of the final boss at the end would have been great, but alas. Superficial things, but they would have added a lot to the game.

This, I agree with. I get the sense that Nintendo doesn't really know what to do with Cranky. They had a clear opportunity to have him bust on the Wiimote to no end. Had Rare still been in charge, I'm sure this could've been the case.

Also, while I like DKC3, I don't think it compares to it's predecessors.

But other than DKCR, how about that new Kirby platformer? What did you guys think about Return To Dreamland? Someone called it a generic Kirby game on TZ, but I totally disagree with that. It's way beyond Adventure, 64, or the 3 Dreamland games, and even manages to match Kirby Superstar in variety of powers. I don't think people gave it enough of a chance, but it's a really phenomenal game.

And beating it on hard mode? Good luck with that.

I might agree on it being kinda generic... But so what? It's a perfect "generic" Kirby game. Blows away nearly every game in the series, and matches Super Star in quality. 8)

[gunswordfist]

What games should I get besides SSBB and Cave Story Wii?

[Foggle]

MadWorld.

[Spark Of Spirit]

For your tastes:

Contra ReBirth
Castlevania The Adventure ReBirth
Wario Land: Shake It!
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
House Of The Dead Overkill
Donkey Kong Country Returns (YOU should use the Classic Controller hack, though)
Muramasa
GoldenEye
MadWorld
Red Steel 2 (the experience is worth it)
Batman: The Brave & The Bold
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Kirby's Return To Dreamland
Sonic Colors
Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Pick this over 1 if you only want to try one of them)

That's already a pretty good selection.

[Eddy]

I still haven't beaten it but Kirby's Return to Dream Land is amazing. Best Kirby game since Super Star, I'd be willing to say.

Also, I don't know why, BUT I DON'T TRUST THAT MALGOR GUY.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I still haven't beaten it but Kirby's Return to Dream Land is amazing. Best Kirby game since Super Star, I'd be willing to say.

It's weird. Most of the Kirby fans who think Super Star is amazing really dig this game, but people who prefer Kirby's Adventure or Kirby 64 seem to not like it as much. I'm not really sure why, but I don't see anything Adventure does better than RTDL.

Also, I don't know why, BUT I DON'T TRUST THAT MALGOR GUY.

I won't be spoiling the story, but I have to say that I really enjoy the new characters in this game. My only regret is that they didn't have helpers as unlockables for multiplayer. I like playing as Knuckle Joe. 

[Avaitor]

Hey Desen, are Excitebite: World Rally and You, Me and the Cubes worth playing? They're up for Club Nintendo this month.