Resident Evil: A thread for the undead!

[talonmalon333]

Hey Foggle, I'm just curious. Did you read the Resident Evil novels, written by S.D. Perry?

[Foggle]

Nope. Doesn't Nicholai fantasize about raping Jill in the RE3 adaptation?

[talonmalon333]

Nope. Doesn't Nicholai fantasize about raping Jill in the RE3 adaptation?

I think everyone has had that fantasy at some point. I don't remember. My memory of the RE3 and CV adaptations is a bit blurry, as I haven't read them as much. CV is actually a pretty weak adaptation.

My feelings on the novels are mixed, but I think they are readable. When I first started getting them 6 or 7 years ago, I read them constantly, particularly RE0 and RE1 as those were the first of the novels I got (haven't read RE3 and CV as much because, by the time I bought those ones, I wasn't as interested in the novels anymore). I think the novelizations of RE0, RE1, and RE2 are good. RE0 is actually my favorite of the novels (and not just cause it was the first I read). That might be a surprise since the game is one of the weaker ones in the franchise, but I kind of like the novel as much if not more than the game. It does a good job of building up RE0's atmosphere (which I always found to be the game's strongest element by far), and has good interactions between Rebecca and Billy. I like the novelizations of RE1 and RE2 equally, though RE2 is probably a better adaption. S.D. Perry tries to juggle both Chris and Jill's scenarios with the novel and her effort isn't perfect, but it's still adequate and interesting to go through the story of RE1 following both of the characters. And it does really well at building atmosphere.

As for her two original stories, Caliban Cove and Underworld, they are... okay. They do make me slightly question S.D. Perry's skill at storytelling (I mean, it's easy for me to like an adaption of the video games, but once she ). I found them worth reading once, but that's about it.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I read the first two ages ago since I couldn't play the games due to my controlphobia. They're okay for what they are.

[talonmalon333]

So lately I've, out of the blue, been thinking about the GameCube remake of RE1. And I've been reminded that this game has some really weird issues with writing that weren't present in the original.

Most importantly is the sequence of Jill and Barry against Lisa Trevor. If you look at that sequence, and compare the Jill version of it with Chris' version, it's so obvious that this scene was probably made for Jill. With Chris, the fight just gets a swift, unimportant opening that serves no purpose other than to get you in the fight. Whereas with Jill, you have all that drama going on with Barry acting weird... But man, this part really suffers from bad writing. Let me just give a recap of everything that has happened so far with Barry in the game, and I think by doing so, the issue is just obvious.

Barry has been acting weird and kind of suspicious. Then you go underground and ride down an elevator with him into a dark hole. Afterward, he shoots the elevator back up and leaves Jill to die down there with no way out. Then, Jill meets him at this altar, and he pulls a gun on her. She catches it, aims it at him, and begins questioning him at gunpoint. Then Lisa Trevor appears and attacks them, and Jill is forced to give his gun back to him so they can fight it together. Once they kill it, what happens? Jill just goes on and leaves Barry as if nothing ever happened. Later they meet up in the lab, and they start acting like buddy-buddies, before meeting with Wesker, where Barry somehow tricks her again. From there on, he manages to make up for his mistake, saves Jill, and then they leave the mansion and all that fun stuff.

Seriously, what happened all of the sudden? It seems like the people who wrote the new remake Barry material are completely different from the ones who rewrote the story sequences that were in the original RE1. It's like the story was written first and pulled straight from the original game, and then somehow else inserted their own material afterward in the hopes of "fleshing out" Barry's character. In the remake, Jill acts like a complete moron. She had been suspicious of Barry all this time. He then leaves her to die in a dark cave, and then tries to pull a gun on her and kill her. But then a fight happens and Jill just forgets it ever happened? I mean, did no one in Capcom notice this story flaw?

And to be honest, I don't consider this to be remotely nitpicky. I found this to be a distracting plot hole when I was young, back when this game was still new. The moment that Lisa Trevor was defeated, Jill should've gotten him down at gunpoint, cuffed him, or something. Or at the very least, just say "Barry, WTF was that?". Instead Barry just says he'll continue investigating and Jill says "Okay" as if there's nothing wrong.  Then they meet up in the lab, and Barry gives a friendly jab on her shoulder, like the game seems to forget what he just did 20 minutes ago. True, you could mention the point that she doesn't seem remotely surprised when he gets her at gunpoint again in the lab. But "unsurprised" should be far from the case. Jill shouldn't have even let him get to that point. I have no idea how the writing just suddenly fell apart at the end of the game, but Capcom somehow had to have missed this. Ultimately, there is no reason for all this new Barry stuff to be there. It's not necessary, as the original RE1 had enough material to cover the point.

I mean, all of the subtlety that was in the original RE1's atmosphere was completely discarded in this remake, so it's a shame that the story got the same fate. In the original, Barry seemed weary, and kind of off. There was that suspicion that he wasn't telling us something, but we really couldn't be sure. In the remake, however, he's basically a main villain. Reminds me of the fact that there are people out there who claim that the remake is objectively better and you're wrong if you prefer the original. At least the original was consistent in its story development and had a sense of subtlety. I have absolutely no issue with saying the remake is better. But it's still an opinion, not a fact (and the same could be said for vice versa).

There is also some more questionable writing in the remake (Wesker responding to quotes that weren't even included in the remake, etc.) and the lack of subtlety extends beyond those story elements (the files that you discover are more "BOOOO SCARY" in their presentation, etc.). But that scene I mentioned above is the main thing.

[Foggle]

I mean, all of the subtlety that was in the original RE1's atmosphere was completely discarded in this remake

You mean how the remake is a straight horror game and not a comedy? Seriously, though, I don't remember any supposed subtlety in the original RE1. I guess it had maybe three less jump scares.

There are obvious flaws with REmake's story, sure, but it's Resident Evil. The closest the series ever got to good writing was when Code Veronica lifted a plot twist from Psycho.

[talonmalon333]

I mean, all of the subtlety that was in the original RE1's atmosphere was completely discarded in this remake

You mean how the remake is a straight horror game and not a comedy? Seriously, though, I don't remember any supposed subtlety in the original RE1. I guess it had maybe three less jump scares.

There are obvious flaws with REmake's story, sure, but it's Resident Evil. The closest the series ever got to good writing was when Code Veronica lifted a plot twist from Psycho.

In the original Resident Evil, the mansion had a much more ordinary appearance. You look at places like this main hall, and it looks rather normal.

Spoiler

[close]

At the same time, that normalness almost makes it even more uncomfortable. It's the uncanny feeling of being ordinary, but also slightly off. Then you have the remake...

Spoiler

[close]

In this game, they aren't even trying to hide it. It's a haunted house through and through. Sheer darkness, big candlesticks, booming thunder (even though it seems to be thundering inside the mansion and nowhere else in the game), etc. Look at the gallery in the two games.



In the original, it looks rather ordinary. Blue wallpaper, regular if tasteless paintings. In the remake, everything is shrouded in darkness. Even checking the pictures brings up text saying things like "This picture looks like it's watching you!" (stuff like that is so forced). And this comparison extends to the rest of the game. The remake just seems like much more stereotypical horror. And the feeling of the uncanny is just more effective than straight up spookiness.

That's my take on it.

[Foggle]

I dunno, I think the original game probably would have looked like the remake if the PS1 had the capability of making it do so. Then again, I can see your point.

As for the writing, while I think the dialogue is worse in the original (mostly due to abysmal translation and acting), you're right that it's more consistent on a core story level. Though it's worth noting that all the new stuff in REmake was actually cut content from the original version.

[talonmalon333]

I dunno, I think the original game probably would have looked like the remake if the PS1 had the capability of making it do so. Then again, I can see your point.

As for the writing, while I think the dialogue is worse in the original (mostly due to abysmal translation and acting), you're right that it's more consistent on a core story level. Though it's worth noting that all the new stuff in REmake was actually cut content from the original version.

Perhaps it would've looked more like the remake if it had the power. But ultimately, the console didn't.

Just to be clear, I say this as someone who thinks the original and remake are equally good. I just like them for their own reasons. And I really like the new story content in the remake, like Trevor's diary (even though the original version of it that was to be included in the PS1 RE1 was much better and more fleshed out). Lisa Trevor ties with Nemesis as my favorite RE monster (Lisa Trevor wins in terms of story, Nemesis wins in terms of gameplay and scariness). I just think the execution of Barry's fleshed out subplot wasn't handled perfectly. They needed to modify it instead of inserting new material while expecting the old material to still work.

[Foggle]

IMO, Resident Evil is one of the few times where the remake ended up surpassing the original (other instances being Zero Mission and Black Mesa), but the PS1 version is still really good. It may seem low when I put it at #5 on my list of favorites, but considering how much I love REmake, 2, 3, and 4, it's actually high praise.

[talonmalon333]

IMO, Resident Evil is one of the few times where the remake ended up surpassing the original (other instances being Zero Mission and Black Mesa), but the PS1 version is still really good. It may seem low when I put it at #5 on my list of favorites, but considering how much I love REmake, 2, 3, and 4, it's actually high praise.

I don't know how I'd rank them, but this is how I tier the games.

Tier 1: RE1/REmake, RE2, RE4
Tier 2: RE3, RECV, RE0
Tier 3: RE5

Haven't played Revelaitons or 6.

[Foggle]

My problem with CV, 0, and every RE after 4 is that they all feel extremely inconsistent to me. In CV especially, there are parts that I absolutely love, and parts I hope I never have to play again as long as I live. All the games are good to a point, but most of them have what I consider to be irredeemable flaws that make them just plain not fun.

[talonmalon333]

My problem with CV, 0, and every RE after 4 is that they all feel extremely inconsistent to me. In CV especially, there are parts that I absolutely love, and parts I hope I never have to play again as long as I live. All the games are good to a point, but most of them have what I consider to be irredeemable flaws that make them just plain not fun.

RE5 was pretty consistent. Consistently mediocre.

As for CV, I get what you mean. Some parts of that game make me think that something when wrong when they had to rebuild the engine up for the Dreamcast. Random parts of the game are just broken. And then there's the character change midway into the game which just screws over anyone who doesn't have good enough backup files to resort to. It always happens your first time through, and that's not good game design. Story is also a bit too hammy, though I liked the Chris and Wesker dynamic even if Wesker's burning hate for Chris seems strange (he should hate Jill just as much). I assume it was to help shape Chris into the RE main hero.

As for RE0, I don't think it was inconsistent. The train was admittedly the best part of the game, but I still enjoyed the rest of the game pretty consistently. It just wasn't amazing or even great... Still, that atmosphere, man. RE0 has such a great mood to it.

Not in a rush to play the recent games.

[Foggle]

Only part I really liked of RE5 was the underground crypt area with the laser puzzles and traps. The preceding stuff was fine, though often just a less interesting copy-paste of RE4. But those last two episodes sucked so hard.

I would love CV if it was just Claire's segment on Rockfort and Chris' segment in Antarctica. I can't stand the middle part of the game, though.

I think 0 is good all the way up until the final area, but then it lays the backtracking on so thick that it almost put me to sleep. I swear, I was fetch-questing through the same 8 rooms for upwards of an hour, and that really killed the replay value for me. That said, the train part at the beginning is amazing.

Revelations would be great if it was only Jill's levels. RE6 would be good if they ditched Jake's campaign entirely. It would still have pacing problems and horrendous final chapters for Leon and Ada, but removing Jake would be a marked improvement on its own.

[talonmalon333]

Only part I really liked of RE5 was the underground crypt area with the laser puzzles and traps. The preceding stuff was fine, though often just a less interesting copy-paste of RE4. But those last two episodes sucked so hard.

I kind of remember that. Most of the game is just a blur to me, though. I just liked the multiplayer, and Wesker being more badass than ever before.

I would love CV if it was just Claire's segment on Rockfort and Chris' segment in Antarctica. I can't stand the middle part of the game, though.

I personally thought they were fine. I just think the game as a whole could've used some polish. Overall I like it just as much as RE3 and get the arguments that it is the "true RE3".

I think 0 is good all the way up until the final area, but then it lays the backtracking on so thick that it almost put me to sleep. I swear, I was fetch-questing through the same 8 rooms for upwards of an hour, and that really killed the replay value for me. That said, the train part at the beginning is amazing.

Ah, I actually remember that, now that you mention it. I do remember a lot of backtracking in that place. Still, like everything else in the game, I just really loved the atmosphere of it. I don't even know what it is about RE0's atmosphere. Something about it is just so perfect to me.