Unpopular Opinions You Hold About Anime

[LumRanmaYasha]

Eh, To each their own, then, but I just could never get into One Piece's fillers. They weren't horrible, but like I said, they felt like a waist of time to me, personally (in that they were boring).

I was never bored during a lot of the One Piece filler episodes, but it's true that unlike Dragonball's you can pretty much take them away and the story would play the same. Although, I find that the Davy Back filler episodes made that particular arc better than it's manga counterpart myself. I also feel that the embedded filler in a lot of canon episodes nicely used, although starting around Enies Lobby they get into DBZ levels of pointlessness, but I didn't find them nearly as offensively boring or painfully mediocre as DBZ's until they adapted Marineford and Fishman Island.

Oh yes, those fucking recaps always get on my nerves. Sure, you can skip them, but its a fucking cheap-ass way for Toei to slow down the pacing of the series. Nobody really needs that much of a reminder of the really short list of events that were covered in the previous episode from just a week ago. Toei is clearly just dragging things out as much as possible.

And yeah, the Fishman Island arc was pretty damn boring. To be honest, One Piece has steadily been losing my interest because of how formulaic and bland the whole thing is getting. Nothing Oda since Enies Lobby has really topped it. I did relatively enjoy the series up to Marineford (though, I wasn't really a fan of Skypiea), but ever since then the manga has just been a chore for me to read.

To be fair, I do think that One Piece as a whole is still a lot better than what most of the people on this board give it credit for, but even so, it was getting harder and harder for me to defend this series at all the more boring the later arcs got for me, and at this point the current manga has kind of killed my interest in the series. That said, I still attest that the early parts of One Piece are legitimately good shonen material. Its not necessarily great in my book, but I did enjoy it for what it was.

Somehow I feel I'm the only One Piece fan who really enjoyed Skypeia, but I guess I can understand the reasons of why people who don't like it (I personally found the Shandorian's goal, the Noland stuff, Eneru, and the actual fights to be really great, but I guess that's just me  ).

I didn't think Punk Hazard was boring in the least. It was a lot of fun, with some great fights and overall was around Impel Down level quality to me. With the crew now going up against Doflamingo and his crew, I'm pretty invested in what's going on in whatever this new arc will eventually be called, and am not bored in the slightest.

I don't mind the formulaic nature of One Piece because the stories (with the exception of Fishman Island) are solid and had good character development, which I favor strongly in any series and is the principal reason why I adore this series in the first place. Really, I don't even care that One Piece's arcs take so long because I enjoy watching it to see the journey, not the destination, so unless Oda really drops the ball the way so many other shonen series (Bleach and Fairy Tail, for example) did, I could read the manga for maybe fifteen more years and never get tired of it.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

My main problem is precisely with the characters, however. The thing is, they really haven't had any good character development past their own introduction arcs, IMO. In some cases they sort of have, but for the most part Oda just tends to let them fall into their assigned roles and doesn't do much else with them anymore aside from the predictable stuff. The other thing I don't like is how the humor in this series has become overly-reliant on exploiting the Straw Hat Pirates' character flaws (i.e., Luffy is dense, Nami is greedy, Sanji is a pervert, Zoro is bad with directions, etc.). In the early parts of the series, those things were definitely there, but only came up from time to time. I feel that in the current manga, Oda has a tendency to over-exaggerate these characteristics to absurd degrees, which kind of gets on my nerves a bit since it makes the characters seem more and more 2D. Maybe that's just the way that I see it, though.

At any rate, while Punk Hazard was better than Fishman Island, I still couldn't get into it for 2 reasons: For one thing, it felt like way too much was going on for most of the arc, and Oda was trying to juggle too many sub-plots at once (I now like to call that Young Justice Season 2-Syndrome). My other problem was one of the same problems that I had with the Fishman Island arc, in which the characters either felt way too overpowered or the enemies felt way too weak in comparison to the heroes. It made me realize that the reason I could get into the repetitive formula of One Piece before was because it still had me interested in seeing how the Straw Hats would overcome whatever nearly impossible obstacle was in their way, and that's where Oda's writing talents most lie, in how he puts his characters through intense and hard to survive situations. The problem with the Fishman Island and Punk Hazard arcs were that they had almost no tension, and the villains felt like a complete joke because of how strong the Straw Hats now are. I get that Oda is trying to show that they have come along way and can now be considered to be one of the big guns of the Sea, but it makes for boring story-telling when it feels like there's nothing that can really challenge the characters that you're supposed to be rooting for. That said, I'm hoping that this current arc can finally present the Straw Hats with a challenge, once again, now that they are directly in Doflamingo's country and will likely have to confront his strongest soldiers as well as the man himself.

[LumRanmaYasha]

My main problem is precisely with the characters, however. The thing is, they really haven't had any good character development past their own introduction arcs, IMO. In some cases they sort of have, but for the most part Oda just tends to let them fall into their assigned roles and doesn't do much else with them anymore aside from the predictable stuff. The other thing I don't like is how the humor in this series has become overly-reliant on exploiting the Straw Hat Pirates' character flaws (i.e., Luffy is dense, Nami is greedy, Sanji is a pervert, Zoro is bad with directions, etc.). In the early parts of the series, those things were definitely there, but only came up from time to time. I feel that in the current manga, Oda has a tendency to over-exaggerate these characteristics to absurd degrees, which kind of gets on my nerves a bit since it makes the characters seem more and more 2D. Maybe that's just the way that I see it, though.

I definately don't agree with the sentiment that the characters haven't had good development past their introduction arcs, but I'll need to have some time to gather evidence for me to prove it well.

As far as the "character flaws" go, I do think that the post-timeskip chapters have had a problem with this, and it has gotten on my nerves, but to tell you the truth only Sanji and Brook's really irk me. I haven't really seen evidence of Zoro and Nami's flaws being overused at all, and Ussop isn't really that much of a coward anymore, just still overly cautious. Franky, Chopper, and Robin's haven't really been used much at all, and personally I don't think Luffy is dense, but merely has a Goku-style naivety to him that sometimes makes him get carried away.

I think the real problem with the character post-timeskip is that Oda is struggling to find ways to give all the crew something to do. In Fishman Island, the crew felt tacked on, and only Luffy felt like he needed to be there for the plot to happen. Quite frankly, Oda just needs to find ways for all the characters to have a bearing on the plot of an arc, like in Thriller Bark where pretty much every character had a role that developed them and moved the plot foward. In Punk Hazard, I would say only Chopper and Luffy felt properly intergrated into the arc (although Zoro and Sanji had some good moments too), but Law, Kinemon, Smoker, and Tashigi made things interesting and did interesting things that kept it fun. It was a massive improvement from Fishman Island where only Luffy seemed to be in the spotlight, and I'm hoping Oda can find a ways to use all the characters effectively in this new arc, perhaps even reaching Thriller Bark level quality.

At any rate, while Punk Hazard was better than Fishman Island, I still couldn't get into it for 2 reasons: For one thing, it felt like way too much was going on for most of the arc, and Oda was trying to juggle too many sub-plots at once (I now like to call that Young Justice Season 2-Syndrome). My other problem was one of the same problems that I had with the Fishman Island arc, in which the characters either felt way too overpowered or the enemies felt way too weak in comparison to the heroes. It made me realize that the reason I could get into the repetitive formula of One Piece before was because it still had me interested in seeing how the Straw Hats would overcome whatever nearly impossible obstacle was in their way, and that's where Oda's writing talents most lie, in how he puts his characters through intense and hard to survive situations. The problem with the Fishman Island and Punk Hazard arcs were that they had almost no tension, and the villains felt like a complete joke because of how strong the Straw Hats now are. I get that Oda is trying to show that they have come along way and can now be considered to be one of the big guns of the Sea, but it makes for boring story-telling when it feels like there's nothing that can really challenge the characters that you're supposed to be rooting for. That said, I'm hoping that this current arc can finally present the Straw Hats with a challenge, once again, now that they are directly in Doflamingo's country and will likely have to confront his strongest soldiers as well as the man himself.

The overpowered nature of the crew now is definately a problem. However, I thought that the villains in Punk Hazard were a definate step up. Caesar had some good threatening moments, Monet gave Zoro and Tashigi quite a bit of trouble, and Virgo was handled fine as well. Franky attacked Baby 5 and Buffalo spontaneously, and the moment when Nami and Ussop took them down came off pretty sweet to me, but I also think they are still dangerous enought to cause trouble for the crew in the new arc. Overall, I would say the villains were a huge set up from the rather generic, boring villains of Fishman Island, where of the only two that felt like they actually mattered, only Van Decken was any fun as an antagonist, while Hodi was just outright lame.

Also, I though there were a lot of "oh crap" moments in Punk Hazard, like in Law's first fight with Smoker and when Ceaser released the SAD gas, whereas I felt nothing for the events of Fishman Island's main story (the Fisher Tiger and Queen Otohime flashback did keep me entertained).

To be perfectly honest, I don't think too many different plot threads were going on in Punk Hazard. They had to free the kids and capture Ceaser. That was it.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

There was also Luffy forming an alliance with Law, Law's plot against Doflamingo and his relation to Cesar, Smoker confronting Vergo as a traitor to the Marines, Brownbeard's crew and realization that Cesar had deceived him, the samurai (I can't remember his name) trying to rescue his son, and THEN there were the 2 main plot-points that you mentioned. So yeah, personally I'd say that the arc definitely had a bunch of sub-plots going on.

As for your other points, that's just a difference of perception, I suppose. For the characters, I just don't really feel that they've changed all that much since their own character arcs, aside from getting stronger, with the weaker ones being a little less cowardly than before. I honestly haven't really noticed much more change beyond that, though.

[LumRanmaYasha]

There was also Luffy forming an alliance with Law, Law's plot against Doflamingo and his relation to Cesar, Smoker confronting Vergo as a traitor to the Marines, Brownbeard's crew and realization that Cesar had deceived him, the samurai (I can't remember his name) trying to rescue his son, and THEN there were the 2 main plot-points that you mentioned. So yeah, personally I'd say that the arc definitely had a bunch of sub-plots going on.

Those were plot points, but I wouldn't consider any of them full on sub-plots, as they were all related to one of the two plots I outlined earlier. The first four of those  I'd lump into the "capturing Ceaser" plot, especially the first two since they connect with Law's plan to capture Ceaser directly. The last one is a part of the "rescuing the kids" plot, as Momonosuke was one of the kids they were trying to rescue (the samurai's name is Kinemon, by the way).

As for your other points, that's just a difference of perception, I suppose. For the characters, I just don't really feel that they've changed all that much since their own character arcs, aside from getting stronger, with the weaker ones being a little less cowardly than before. I honestly haven't really noticed much more change beyond that, though.

Although the characters personalities dont change much (not that they need to change), I feel the characters grow in small ways in each arc. Like Zoro growing to trust Robin, or Chopper realizing he needs to be able to fight his own battles during Skypeia, for instance. Ussop has grown the most, to the point where he's confident in himself and his abilities and not even much of a coward anymore, which was a process that really developed throughout the entire pre-timeskip story of the series. When I have time later I'll write one gignatic post about how he's grown through each of the arcs, but I want to rewatch some of his episodes/chapters again before I do so.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Those were plot points, but I wouldn't consider any of them full on sub-plots, as they were all related to one of the two plots I outlined earlier. The first four of those  I'd lump into the "capturing Ceaser" plot, especially the first two since they connect with Law's plan to capture Ceaser directly. The last one is a part of the "rescuing the kids" plot, as Momonosuke was one of the kids they were trying to rescue (the samurai's name is Kinemon, by the way).

Plot points to me are stuff that come up and affect the plot but aren't necessarily referenced back to as the plot goes along. Sub-plots mini-plots that develop along with the main plot simultaneously. The stuff I mentioned were pretty much sub-plots as they weren't just single points in the plot that affected it but were resolved themselves right away. For instance, Brownbeard's sub-plot developed as the arc progressed, rather than him finding out right away that Cesar was just using him and his men. He went through a denial phase at first and only gradually accepted that Cesar was evil when he started to show his true colors. The other stuff I mentioned had similar development as the plot went on, so I would definitely count them as sub-plots, myself. Either way you look at it, there was a lot of stuff going on in that arc.

Although the characters personalities dont change much (not that they need to change), I feel the characters grow in small ways in each arc. Like Zoro growing to trust Robin, or Chopper realizing he needs to be able to fight his own battles during Skypeia, for instance. Ussop has grown the most, to the point where he's confident in himself and his abilities and not even much of a coward anymore, which was a process that really developed throughout the entire pre-timeskip story of the series. When I have time later I'll write one gignatic post about how he's grown through each of the arcs, but I want to rewatch some of his episodes/chapters again before I do so.

With stuff like Zoro and Robin, that whole trust thing didn't develop gradually, and really only happened after the course of 1 arc. As far as Ussop goes, I'm not really sure I agree. He's definitely not as much of a coward as he used to be, but he still has a lot of moments where he freaks out at the prospect of going into a dangerous situation. I'd say that he's still not the "brave man of the sea" that he wants to be, yet.

As for some of the other points you mentioned, while they were important character moments that happened, my problem with them is that they aren't really followed-up that well in the series. For instance, Chopper learned to deal with his own fights in Skypiea, but many times after that he still gets scared of strong enemies and tries to avoid fights as much as possible. I feel like characters in One Piece have these great moments that signify changes in their character, but then they regress to their old ways after those moments are over.

[LumRanmaYasha]

Plot points to me are stuff that come up and affect the plot but aren't necessarily referenced back to as the plot goes along. Sub-plots mini-plots that develop along with the main plot simultaneously. The stuff I mentioned were pretty much sub-plots as they weren't just single points in the plot that affected it but were resolved themselves right away. For instance, Brownbeard's sub-plot developed as the arc progressed, rather than him finding out right away that Cesar was just using him and his men. He went through a denial phase at first and only gradually accepted that Cesar was evil when he started to show his true colors. The other stuff I mentioned had similar development as the plot went on, so I would definitely count them as sub-plots, myself. Either way you look at it, there was a lot of stuff going on in that arc.

Fair point. But I didn't ever feel too much was going on in the arc myself, and everything resolved pretty well in the end. I guess it's really a matter of perception.

With stuff like Zoro and Robin, that whole trust thing didn't develop gradually, and really only happened after the course of 1 arc. As far as Ussop goes, I'm not really sure I agree. He's definitely not as much of a coward as he used to be, but he still has a lot of moments where he freaks out at the prospect of going into a dangerous situation. I'd say that he's still not the "brave man of the sea" that he wants to be, yet.

I always had a sense Zoro was tense around Robin while watching the anime, myself. As Jaya and Skypeia went on, I felt he became less suspicious of her and grew to accept her as a legitimate member of the crew. I think the moment that solidifies this is when he attacked Eneru after he shocked Robin after her gambit to stop him failed. His mistrust of Robin wasn't completely forgotten though, as he is the first crew member to actually consider the possibility that Robin has betrayed them during Water 7, although even then he was willing to actually go and find out for sure alongside the others.

Ussop had a massive inferiority complex. Part of the reason he left the crew was because he felt useless after the Franky Family beat him up, and because he was powerless to save the Going Merry. He gave his all against Luffy, even though he knew he couldn't win, to try to prove to himself he was worthy of staying with the crew, and his loss meant to him that he wasn't. When he adopted the Sogeking persona, he slowly started to become more bold, as he was determined to help his friends. However, some adive from Sanji after he saved him from Jyabura made him realize he had limitations, but that didn't mean there wasn't anything he could do that other couldn't, as he demonstrated later by helping free Robin from Spandam and encouraging Luffy to win his fight against Lucci. Later, he also realized he was also wrong for being childish in his defense of the Going Merry for his own personal reasons, and learned a lesson of humility. However, he became so dependent on the Sogeking personality in Enies Lobby, that he set lower expectations for what he was able to accomplish as Ussop. That's why he became Sogeking in his fight against Perona; he didn't think he could beat her as himself. At the end of the fight, though, he came to recognize Sogeking's power was his own power and he could defeat opponents as plain old Ussop. After reading the news about Ace's death after the events of Marineford, he realizes that he has to get stronger in order to help Luffy achieve his dream, and accepts Hecules' training. As his first reapearence in the timeskip shows, he's no longer afraid of getting into figths, and acts a lot more confidently. His still a little cautious, for sure, but I feel he has pretty much become a real man of the sea at this point.

As for some of the other points you mentioned, while they were important character moments that happened, my problem with them is that they aren't really followed-up that well in the series. For instance, Chopper learned to deal with his own fights in Skypiea, but many times after that he still gets scared of strong enemies and tries to avoid fights as much as possible. I feel like characters in One Piece have these great moments that signify changes in their character, but then they regress to their old ways after those moments are over.

Getting scared and avoiding fights doesn't feel like a regression for Chopper. Keep in mind he can be rather childish at times, plus he's fairly pacifistic for the most part. That's just who he is. However, he's not afraid to fight in order to help his friends, especially when a lot is on the line. His stuggle against Kumadori, where he pushed himself to a point of exhaustion and took a gamble on using a third rumble ball despite the consequences, or helping the rest of the crew against Oz and the Pacifista in Sabody, are some good examples. That being said, I can see why you feel characters in One Piece regress, but personally I feel their sense of what they are capable of and what they have to do change throughout all the arcs, and the only thing that remains constant is their general personalities and their interactions with each other. Overall, when you get down to it, I just like these characters and like seeing them in all sorts of crazy situations and tough battles, but that's just how I am I suppose. 

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

-I don't get why people call Outlaw star a "stupid" show. Is it intentionally silly? Yes. I like that aspect of it, personally, though I can admit that Fred is a really badly written gay stereotype, which makes me kind of ashamed that I still find him to work as a comic relief character, but other than that I never felt the show ever came off as unintentionally idiotic. Personally, I think its a worthy piece of the space western trilogy, even if its not as good as the other 2 series.

-Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid (and to a lesser extent Fumoffu), is the only good thing to have ever come out of Kyoto Animation. I know I've probably said this before, but it doesn't hurt for me to say it again.

-Not only am I OK with Dragon Ball having been included in our top 20 for our animated series list, but I honestly feel that it would have been perfectly justified as a top 10 entry, as I continue to re-watch the series. Yes, you guys can disagree with me all that you want, but I just can't see this series as anything other than a true animation classic. Once again, its a shame that so many people can still confuse this series with Dragon Ball Z. They couldn't be more different.

-Aizen from Bleach was never really a good villain (read: well-written). People really only remembered him because of a single plot-twist, which admittedly was pretty damn cool at the time. Other than that, his actual motivation, ambitions, and overall persona as a villain is really weak, and I don't think he really deserves his status as being considered one of the best shonen villains of all time. There's just no way he's up there with the likes of villains like Frieza, Sensui, and Shishio, IMO.

-To be honest, I actually don't really hate Naruto as much as I let on. The thing is, I've always considered it to be a series with good ambitions that is really only hampered by an amateurish author (sorry, I just don't think Kishimoto knows how to handle emotional depth on any level whatsoever). If this series were handled by a more experienced writer with the same general story, it could have actually been a shonen classic. As it stands, it really falls in the mix with the type of shonen that I just can't get into thanks to the characters either being bland, unlikable, or downright forgettable, which has always been my main problem with this series, rather than its story or anything else of that sort.

-I still think that Zoids: Chaotic Century/Guardian Force is the best mecha anime that I have seen aside from FMP and Gundam 0080, and its probably the most underrated toy franchise show out there.

-I like that Digimon Tamers as a "kid's psychological show" is better and more entertaining than most of the adult "psychological" anime that I've tried to get into but never could. Maybe I'm just stupid or something, but at least Tamers has good writing and doesn't come off as pretentious drivel. That said, yeah, its still a fucking kid's show, but for what it is, the writing is surprisingly pretty intelligent and thoughtful.

[LumRanmaYasha]

-I don't get why people call Outlaw star a "stupid" show. Is it intentionally silly? Yes. I like that aspect of it, personally, though I can admit that Fred is a really badly written gay stereotype, which makes me kind of ashamed that I still find him to work as a comic relief character, but other than that I never felt the show ever came off as unintentionally idiotic. Personally, I think its a worthy piece of the space western trilogy, even if its not as good as the other 2 series.

People think Outlaw Star is a stupid show?  I thought people had nothing but nostalgia and praise for it. Anyway, I don't enjoy the show as much as Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, and Gun X Sword but it's a good series and holds up well when I rewatch it.

-Not only am I OK with Dragon Ball having been included in our top 20 for our animated series list, but I honestly feel that it would have been perfectly justified as a top 10 entry, as I continue to re-watch the series. Yes, you guys can disagree with me all that you want, but I just can't see this series as anything other than a true animation classic. Once again, its a shame that so many people can still confuse this series with Dragon Ball Z. They couldn't be more different.

I'm just as big a fan of Dragonball as you (heck, the series means so much to me I might be a bigger one), but I'm not sure I'd rank the series over Yu Yu Hakusho, Johnny Quest, or even Gargoyles, as I feel that those are high quality and important action shows as well, and although Dragonball is a classic work of animation, those other series had attributes and significance to them that made their placement higher than Dragonball on your list well deserved. I do think that Dragonball should have been higher than Mobile Suit Gundam though...

-Aizen from Bleach was never really a good villain (read: well-written). People really only remembered him because of a single plot-twist, which admittedly was pretty damn cool at the time. Other than that, his actual motivation, ambitions, and overall persona as a villain is really weak, and I don't think he really deserves his status as being considered one of the best shonen villains of all time. There's just no way he's up there with the likes of villains like Frieza, Sensui, and Shishio, IMO.

Come now, is this really an unpopular opinion.

While I will always hold that the twist at the end of the Soul Society arc worked well, there is no charisma or even depth to Aizen's character. He's overpowered. He stoic. He's boring. And contradictory because of Kubo's shit writing. I still am not sure what he was ever trying to accomplish, because nothing the character ever did after Soul Society ever made any sense. Just a terrible villain, plain and simple.

-To be honest, I actually don't really hate Naruto as much as I let on. The thing is, I've always considered it to be a series with good ambitions that is really only hampered by an amateurish author (sorry, I just don't think Kishimoto knows how to handle emotional depth on any level whatsoever). If this series were handled by a more experienced writer with the same general story, it could have actually been a shonen classic. As it stands, it really falls in the mix with the type of shonen that I just can't get into thanks to the characters either being bland, unlikable, or downright forgettable, which has always been my main problem with this series, rather than its story or anything else of that sort.

I had some nostalgia for Naruto that made me believe the first 141 episodes of the original series were good....but, rewatching the series on Toonami, I can't stand it. I mean, I thought the first episode held up really well and was actually better than I remembered, but every other episode has been progressively more and more of a pain to watch. Not just because of the terrible pacing and cheapness of the anime (the music is still good, though), but I can't stand any of the characters any more, not even Kakashi. The Zabuza arc is honestly a very paint by the numbers and slow shonen arc, and Haku and Zabuza are honestly rather boring villains. I dunno. I've been pretty disillusioned with the manga for some time now as well. I just dont like this series anymore. It doesn't hold up to me as well as other Toonami shows from back in the day like Zatch Bell, Megas XLR, or Bobobo-Bo Bo-bobo (not counting 4Kids One Piece. Obviously it holds up better than that). Maybe once Toonami gets to the Forest of Death portion of the Chunin Exams it'll start being as enjoyable as I remembered, but right now I honestly feel like I'm wasting more time watching and reading the series than I am watching and reading Bleach, which kills me.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

People think Outlaw Star is a stupid show?  I thought people had nothing but nostalgia and praise for it. Anyway, I don't enjoy the show as much as Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, and Gun X Sword but it's a good series and holds up well when I rewatch it.

I've seen a lot of people accuse it of being stupid and not holding up well, yes. Personally I think that they are wrong.

I'm just as big a fan of Dragonball as you (heck, the series means so much to me I might be a bigger one), but I'm not sure I'd rank the series over Yu Yu Hakusho, Johnny Quest, or even Gargoyles, as I feel that those are high quality and important action shows as well, and although Dragonball is a classic work of animation, those other series had attributes and significance to them that made their placement higher than Dragonball on your list well deserved. I do think that Dragonball should have been higher than Mobile Suit Gundam though...

I think Yu Yu Hakusho and Gargoyles are better shows as well (I haven't seen JQ in ages, though, so I'll have to re-watch that series at some point). That said, I still could have justified Dragon Ball being even higher. That's not to say that I have a problem with its placement on the list. I just think that it really does deserve to be remembered as a classic series. It has aged phenomenally well.

Come now, is this really an unpopular opinion.

It might not be unpopular anymore, but for quite a few years, you would hear Bleach fans (of which their used to be WAY too many of) raving about how Aizen was one of the best villains to ever come out of the shonen genre, and at that time all they had to go on was a single plot twist. I never saw him as a memorable villain beyond that, so I'm just pointing out that I always had that opinion of him, whereas I feel that a lot o people were fooled into thinking that there was really more to him than just being a generic villain with pretty lame and cliched motivations. As always, I turned out to be right.

I had some nostalgia for Naruto that made me believe the first 141 episodes of the original series were good....but, rewatching the series on Toonami, I can't stand it. I mean, I thought the first episode held up really well and was actually better than I remembered, but every other episode has been progressively more and more of a pain to watch. Not just because of the terrible pacing and cheapness of the anime (the music is still good, though), but I can't stand any of the characters any more, not even Kakashi. The Zabuza arc is honestly a very paint by the numbers and slow shonen arc, and Haku and Zabuza are honestly rather boring villains. I dunno. I've been pretty disillusioned with the manga for some time now as well. I just dont like this series anymore. It doesn't hold up to me as well as other Toonami shows from back in the day like Zatch Bell, Megas XLR, or Bobobo-Bo Bo-bobo (not counting 4Kids One Piece. Obviously it holds up better than that). Maybe once Toonami gets to the Forest of Death portion of the Chunin Exams it'll start being as enjoyable as I remembered, but right now I honestly feel like I'm wasting more time watching and reading the series than I am watching and reading Bleach, which kills me.

My point was that I think the main reason that Naruto doesn't hold up is because of the lame writing and honestly crappy characters. The story was never really the weak point of the series, as some of the haters claim, and it can get pretty ambitious at times. The problem is that Masashi Kishimoto is clearly not the most talented writer (though I will say that he's at least miles better than Kubo, any day), and if I were to be blunt, he kind of sucks at it. So the main problem with Naruto is not its story, but its badly written characters, and as I've said, characters are the most important part of any series to me. The story can be fine, or it can be kind of crappy, but good characters are what keeps me caring about a story. Naruto has a bunch o pig-headed unlikable douche-bags in the beginning, and while a lot of characters get more tolerable as the manga goes along, they then just become completely bland and uninteresting. It also is one of those shonen series that succumbs to having way too many characters introduced at once, hence why you get a lot of sub-plots that go nowhere, and you can't help but forget the names of over half of the cast, or even that some characters even exist within the series.

Basically, I'm saying that I don't really like this series either (I don't necessarily hate it, though), but my unpopular opinion is my reason for hating it. A lot of people blame the story. I honestly have no huge issues with the story. I hate the fucking characters more than anything else.

[Rynnec]

Aizen from Bleach was never really a good villain (read: well-written). People really only remembered him because of a single plot-twist, which admittedly was pretty damn cool at the time. Other than that, his actual motivation, ambitions, and overall persona as a villain is really weak, and I don't think he really deserves his status as being considered one of the best shonen villains of all time. There's just no way he's up there with the likes of villains like Frieza, Sensui, and Shishio, IMO.

I'm pretty sure this isn't really an unpopular opinion. Ever since the whole Deicide mess, it's generally agreed that Aizen was a fucking terribly written character with zero depth to him. Most of his praise comes from what he did when he first outed himself as a villain.

My point was that I think the main reason that Naruto doesn't hold up is because of the lame writing and honestly crappy characters. The story was never really the weak point of the series, as some of the haters claim, and it can get pretty ambitious at times. The problem is that Masashi Kishimoto is clearly not the most talented writer (though I will say that he's at least miles better than Kubo, any day), and if I were to be blunt, he kind of sucks at it. So the main problem with Naruto is not its story, but its badly written characters, and as I've said, characters are the most important part of any series to me. The story can be fine, or it can be kind of crappy, but good characters are what keeps me caring about a story. Naruto has a bunch o pig-headed unlikable douche-bags in the beginning, and while a lot of characters get more tolerable as the manga goes along, they then just become completely bland and uninteresting. It also is one of those shonen series that succumbs to having way too many characters introduced at once, hence why you get a lot of sub-plots that go nowhere, and you can't help but forget the names of over half of the cast, or even that some characters even exist within the series.

Basically, I'm saying that I don't really like this series either (I don't necessarily hate it, though), but my unpopular opinion is my reason for hating it. A lot of people blame the story. I honestly have no huge issues with the story. I hate the fucking characters more than anything else.

It doesn't help that most of the interesting characters are either killed off, or shoved into the sidelines to give the unlikable ones more screentime, or in Itachi's case, get's overhyped in-story to high-hell and back to the point where everyone becomes sick of him. Kishimoto is also the worst of the big 3 shounen mangaka when it comes to writing female characters, and that's saying something.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Speaking of female characters, I'm really sick of how a majority of shonen series these days feel the need to have big-breasted ditsy female characters in order to attract readers. To me that just shows cheap tactics to make up for poor writing ability. You know one thing I've noticed about all of Togashi's work? Between YYH, Level E, and HXH, there's not a single over-sexualized female among the group. Hell, Togashi isn't even afraid to put in downright ugly looking females into his story, yet give them a ton of character depth and also give them a really important role in the story. Just look at Palm from HXH. She's ugly as fuck but a damn interesting and useful character. Now, you could maybe chalk up Togashi's lack of doing this to his crappy artwork, but personally I think its clear that he's a writer who is confident in his writing ability to keep his stories interesting (and for what its worth, HXH's main reading demographic is of the oldest crowd that reads WSJ), and clearly he has a bit more respect for the female gender than most other shonen mangaka do. Granted that, this is a magazine that is primarily targeted towards young boys, but still, just think of what some of these writers are teaching young, impressionable kids, in terms of how they perceive women. To me, the over-sexualization of female characters in shonen series has gone to downright disgusting degrees in certain works (History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi comes to mind, here).

[Foggle]

I also find the level of fanservice and sexualization present in modern manga (not just shounen) to be unnecessary and tasteless. Sadly, it seems that many mangaka are incapable of actually writing interesting female characters, so they decide to just make them walking T&A shots instead.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

You know what the saddest thing is? There are even some female mangaka out their who over-sexualize their female characters and can't write about women for shit. You know you've got it bad when even female writers can't dignify their own gender in the slightest.

[LumRanmaYasha]

I think Yu Yu Hakusho and Gargoyles are better shows as well (I haven't seen JQ in ages, though, so I'll have to re-watch that series at some point). That said, I still could have justified Dragon Ball being even higher. That's not to say that I have a problem with its placement on the list. I just think that it really does deserve to be remembered as a classic series. It has aged phenomenally well.

I agree. It still holds up to this day. Personally, I like Dragonball better than Gargoyles and Johnny Quest, but both of those shows seem more important to me from an industry and influential standpoint, so I don't know if I myself would be able to justify ranking Dragonball over them and Yu Yu Hakusho. But it's definatley a classic series, if not the classic shonen anime. 

My point was that I think the main reason that Naruto doesn't hold up is because of the lame writing and honestly crappy characters. The story was never really the weak point of the series, as some of the haters claim, and it can get pretty ambitious at times. The problem is that Masashi Kishimoto is clearly not the most talented writer (though I will say that he's at least miles better than Kubo, any day), and if I were to be blunt, he kind of sucks at it. So the main problem with Naruto is not its story, but its badly written characters, and as I've said, characters are the most important part of any series to me. The story can be fine, or it can be kind of crappy, but good characters are what keeps me caring about a story. Naruto has a bunch o pig-headed unlikable douche-bags in the beginning, and while a lot of characters get more tolerable as the manga goes along, they then just become completely bland and uninteresting. It also is one of those shonen series that succumbs to having way too many characters introduced at once, hence why you get a lot of sub-plots that go nowhere, and you can't help but forget the names of over half of the cast, or even that some characters even exist within the series.

I never said Kubo is a better writer than Kishimoto. He's far more awful. However, the awfulness of post-Soul Society Bleach makes it actually fun to read sometimes, whereas I'm usually just annoyed with Naruto now. Both aren't very good mangas, that's for sure, and yeah, like you, the characters of Naruto are  the main reason I'm so fed up with it these days. They are either bland or obnoxious or simply just cliche. Thank god for Toriko and the still okayness of post-timeskip One Piece (and the  fun to read just because it is so ridiculous Medaka Box), or there wouldn't be any good shonen manga that I still keep up with.