Yu Yu Hakusho

[gunswordfist]

Was it ever explained how Toguro knew Genkai was Yusuke's teacher? When Toguro fought Yusuke and Kuwabara in Tarukane's house, he didn't really know who they were but just saw potential in Yusuke. Followed by that, he invites Yusuke to the Dark Tournament and invites Genkai as well. How did he know she was Yusuke's teacher?

Please tell me you're joking.

[talonmalon333]

Was it ever explained how Toguro knew Genkai was Yusuke's teacher? When Toguro fought Yusuke and Kuwabara in Tarukane's house, he didn't really know who they were but just saw potential in Yusuke. Followed by that, he invites Yusuke to the Dark Tournament and invites Genkai as well. How did he know she was Yusuke's teacher?

Please tell me you're joking.

I like how Spark gave the intelligent answer, and you try to look like some tough guy while looking retarded in the process. Typical.

[gunswordfist]

Was it ever explained how Toguro knew Genkai was Yusuke's teacher? When Toguro fought Yusuke and Kuwabara in Tarukane's house, he didn't really know who they were but just saw potential in Yusuke. Followed by that, he invites Yusuke to the Dark Tournament and invites Genkai as well. How did he know she was Yusuke's teacher?

Please tell me you're joking.

I like how Spark gave the intelligent answer, and you try to look like some tough guy while looking retarded in the process. Typical.

Tough guy? Just shut up and hand over the lunch money.

[talonmalon333]

Was it ever explained how Toguro knew Genkai was Yusuke's teacher? When Toguro fought Yusuke and Kuwabara in Tarukane's house, he didn't really know who they were but just saw potential in Yusuke. Followed by that, he invites Yusuke to the Dark Tournament and invites Genkai as well. How did he know she was Yusuke's teacher?

Please tell me you're joking.

I like how Spark gave the intelligent answer, and you try to look like some tough guy while looking retarded in the process. Typical.

Tough guy? Just shut up and hand over the lunch money.

I made that post nearly a week ago. Learn to respond quicker.

[gunswordfist]

Did I talk about Hiei's 180 yet? Except for eating children's souls, the lowest thing one of Yusuke enemies has ever done is attack Keiko. In fact, Hiei is the only one to actually do that. Then Yusuke acts like nothing happened when he sees Hiei again and slashing Keiko is badly violates his own code of honor. I know Togashi just wanted to make him a likable (by the fans) teammate after that so I'm not questioning anything, I just wanted to point out the biggest WHAT THE FUCK?! I have with the series.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Yeah, it was more of a popularity thing than anything else. The thing is, most shonen are run on a weekly basis, and the authors who write them don't necessarily ever have solid plans for what they want to do with their series. So, instead, they try to keep their series from getting canceled (its a rough competition with dozens of other authors to find a place for your series and keep it running in the magazine), and usually end up doing many things in a rushed manner in order to get their stories out on time. In this case, Togashi clearly never intended to use Hiei past that first arc when he first conceived the character, but unexpectedly both he and Kurama got pretty popular from their initial appearances for whatever reason, so the natural response was to bring them back as quickly as possible and add them to the main cast of the story. In this case, Togashi pretty much half-assed some reason to have Hiei and Kurama working with Yusuke and Kuwabara, and didn't really have time to think through how to deal with the character interactions, and how Yusuke should have been bitter with Hiei when they initially teamed up together.

That said, Togashi WAS still a pretty inexperienced writer at the time, so it was a rookie thing to overlook. Needless to say, his writing got much better as the series went along (until he just got downright lazy and just shitted out the final arc).

[gunswordfist]

I just assumed Hiei was always going to be on the team. I knew that.

[talonmalon333]

Wasn't Kurama already intended to become a part of the main team? I actually thought he fit in fine enough with working with Yusuke in Maze Castle.

This might be my slightly fuzzy memory of the exact events in the series. But now that I'm thinking about Hiei, I'm actually not sure that the way they fit him into the Maze Castle story arc is too farfetched. I mean you can bring up his honor code, but that's not really established that much, is it? I think what's more important is that Hiei will always do whatever is necessary to accomplish his goal (especially with the later inclusion of his backstory on finding Yukina, and if you speculate that he wanted to carve out an army to assist in that goal), and Yusuke was a direct threat in his goal. Sure, Hiei's tactics would never be as terrible as something Kurama would do as a last resort, but I wouldn't put it past Hiei's character to do what he did to Keiko. To him, killing a human isn't so different from killing a demon.

Course, you could also bring up his smug and mouthy mouthy attitude in the first story arc, in how they completely mellowed him out in his Maze Castle appearance. But that makes sense considering his arrogance was his big downfall when he fought Yusuke. Once Yusuke brought him down a level, of course he'd be more humble, and have a good deal of respect toward Yusuke.

... Or maybe I'm off the mark and need to rewatch it. But for now this is how I remember it, and I remember Hiei fitting in decently in terms of story justification and character.

[Rynnec]

Seeing Seiryu heartlessly killing his own ally also had a part in his change of character, Kurama even notes as much.

[gunswordfist]

Seeing Seiryu heartlessly killing his own ally also had a part in his change of character, Kurama even notes as much.

I don't think it changed him, it was just the first instance Hiei's code of honor was revealed.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Hiei's actual reason for helping out Yusuke in the Saint Beasts arc made sense, in that both he and Kurama basically either had the choice of working for Koenma to redeem themselves for their crimes, or face other-worldly punishment. Obviously they'd pick the option that allowed them to actually do shit, even though in Hiei's case its not like he really wanted to help out Yusuke at that time.

The thing that didn't make sense was how Yusuke was so easily trusting of Hiei, when they had been clear enemies in their last encounter, and Hiei even went as far as to kidnap Keiko and attempt to turn her into a demon. It just never made sense that Yusuke would completely forget about something like that. With Kurama, it at least made sense that he got along with the team right away since he was already established to be a good guy in the first arc he appeared in, when he helped out Yusuke.

At any rate, both Hiei and Kurama became awesome characters in their own right as the series progressed, but I do still feel that their inclusion was a bit shoe-horned in during the Saint Beasts arc, and while it still makes sense from a story standpoint,  I do think that there should have been a bit more hostility between Hiei and the rest of the group (aside from Kurama who had a better understanding of him), and some time should have been spent on them having trust issues with one another, rather than Hiei pretty much feeling like a regular team member within just a single arc.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Hiei was also being controlled by the eye for much of his early appearance until Yusuke beat him. It puts a lot of the early stuff in context.

It was the first time he lost and his opponent didn't kill him and taking a hostage to get to him was pretty low. From what I could muster Hiei seemed to think he owed Yusuke for trying to kill his girlfriend on top of being spared which might have lead to why he was so upset when Seiryu killed his ally. It was really everything he wasn't.

[talonmalon333]

Hiei was also being controlled by the eye for much of his early appearance until Yusuke beat him. It puts a lot of the early stuff in context.

When was that stated?

[Spark Of Spirit]

When we learned about the eye and how it can take control of the user if they aren't sufficiently prepared. Though I think the hint came when we learned the eye drained a ton of his power on top of it. It's a bit of a conceit, but it makes sense so I just go with it.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Well, I do still feel that Hiei was a bit too much of a 1-dimensional villain during his first appearance, which really contrasts his character in the rest of the series. Even when they tried to explain him turning evil with the whole Jagan Eye, he still seemed like a more 3-Dimensional character in the flash-back after he got the eye implanted than when we first saw him in the series.

That said, I will agree that the whole moment with Seiryuu killing his ally was a great way to get Hiei to show what separated him from the other villains out there, and how he still had his own code of honor.

At any rate, while I do have a gripe about Hiei's initial appearance, its hardly a big problem for me, and its especially easy to overlook when you take into context just how many great and memorable moments we got out of Hiei as a character throughout the series. One of my favorite moments was when he was fighting Sensui after he "killed" Yusuke, and Kurama commented on how this was the first time that he had seen Hiei fighting for someone other than himself, as Yusuke's supposed death had clearly affected him as well.

Anyways, one thing that I wanted to comment on is how I've heard criticisms on the main 4 characters of this series, in that some people claim that they are just generic shonen stereotypes that only fulfill archetypal roles for the genre. While they are definitely archetypes of common shonen characters (which is done intentionally), they are hardly what I would call generic. There is SO much more to how these characters are actually executed that, IMO, puts a damn big portion of most other shonen series in this vein to shame.

Yusuke is the "punk teenager who loves to get into fights," but the guy also thinks about where he's going in life, and towards the end of the series he does factor his future in the real world and his relationship with Keiko as being more important to him than getting into fights. That's why he returns at the end of the series and its heavily implied that he just lives a normal life from thereon out.

Kuwabara is accused of being the "hot-headed brute with a heart of gold," and he is definitely written that way at the beginning of the series, but he breaks himself out of that role by also choosing real-life over fighting demons in the end. He breaks out of his stereotype by becoming far more studious, and he doesn't even follow the rest of the group into Demon World in the last arc, because its no longer his concern, and it makes no sense for him to go into that ordeal without a real reason. He also proves to be the real moral support of the main team, and he brings a lot of heart to this series that most other "stereotypical" shonen characters in this role can't even come close to, IMO.

Hiei is the "silent bad-ass with a tragic past," who distances himself from the group but also has a strong sense of trust with them. Once again, this is true since he's written to fit into that archetype, but he proves to be far more well-balanced of a character than most in that role, as he shows that he has quite a good understanding of others' emotions and can even sympathize with what they are going through. This is especially true in the final arc in which he develops a strong devotion to supporting Mukuro.

Finally, Kurama is labeled as just "the smart guy." There is SO much more to his character than this. He is smart, and easily the most strategic of the group. He's also the most conflicted and unstable one, and can also be the most cold-hearted one, doing even deeds that are ruthless enough to make Hiei shudder. And this isn't just being dark for the sake of being edgy. His character makes complete sense in how he functions on an emotional level, and IMO he is really the most interesting character in the series. That, and unlike most of the other shonen hacks that fit into this character archetype, Kurama's intelligence is far better conceived and much more believable. You clearly get to see how the thinks ahead of the game, and how he reacts and adapts to situations that are not in his favor, while still being at a disadvantage. On the other hand, 99% of the other "smart guys" out there are just cheap deus ex machina characters who automatically have the solution to any problem as soon as it arises, which is a cheap way for untalented writers to make a character seem intelligent. Kurama doesn't always have a solution to any given problem, but what makes him interesting is how he tries to work through it, and its not like he always succeeds, but you come to like the character enough to really want him to succeed. That's the other thing, actually. He's not an arrogant prick like most other "smart" characters in shonen, either. Out of all of the character accusations that I have heard, this one pisses me off the most, and clearly shows that some people either haven't watched much of this series, or clearly just don't understand this character at all.