Comic Book Movies

[Avaitor]

Well there's always the possibility that IM3 can also suck, especially since it will be the first film to follow after the Avengers, which will give it a LOT to own up to. But I'm probably being way too cynical, since we have a good year until it comes out.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, speaking of flawed super hero movies that some of us may like despite their criticisms, I'd like to point out once again that I'm one of the 5 people on Earth who likes Spider-Man 3, and honestly no matter how much people explain it to me I still don't fully get the hate for this movie. I can understand why fans of the comic books would hate it, but honestly it makes no sense to me how anyone who enjoyed the first 2 films would hate on the 3rd one since that one was just as silly and had just as many problems as those films. I mean, they are all pretty campy films if you look back on them, but for me its all in good fun. I don't see how SM3 stands out as being that much worse than the first 2 movies. If anything, I'd argue that SM2 is the one that's the most ripe with stupid problems.

[Foggle]

I don't really like any of the Spider-Man movies anymore tbh. They all have cool action scenes, though.

What I dislike about SM 3 is the stupid romance subplot shit, which is equally bad across all three films, but there's a lot more of it in the third one iirc. Some scenes were downright embarrassing to watch IMO and the movie as a whole just puts me to sleep... though I'd argue that SM 2 is actually worse in that regard. I don't have ADD or anything, but I really cannot make it through all of 2 in one sitting. It's so goddamn boring.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I like the SM movies more for Sam Raimi's classic cheesy-ness. Also, I think that the Bruce Cambell cameos are way cooler than any Stan Lee cameo.

[Foggle]

I like the SM movies more for Sam Raimi's classic cheesy-ness.

Yeah, now that I'm older and have watched most of Raimi's output, I've really started to appreciate the cheese in SM 1 & 3 more. It's hilarious!

Also, I think that the Bruce Cambell cameos are way cooler than any Stan Lee cameo.

HELL YEAH BOYEE

[Avaitor]

My main beef with the Spider-Man movies is the one aspect of them that should have been cheesy, Spidey's dialogue and personality, was done completely straight and dull as shit. I don't think Peter had one good one-liner throughout the entire trilogy. I'd forgive this if it wasn't for the fact that Tobey Mcguire can't even pull off drama well enough to make the character's pathos come out accurately, and just made the entire character a wishy-washy emo turd. If you want to know why the bad elements of SM3 get elevated so high, EK, it's because of this.

Anyway, I'm watching The Incredible Hulk now, for the first time since I saw it in theaters 4 years ago. It's too soon for me to comment yet, since I'm only about 10 minutes in, but I did just get to the Stan Lee cameo.

I will say that I recently saw a list of 10 overlooked super hero movies, and the Ang Lee film made the list, since even despite "the disappointing final scene", the 2008 film "basically did the same thing, only 10 times weaker". Uh, no. The reason people hate the 2003 film is because Ang Lee is a wannabe Kubrick who decided to wait an entire fucking hour before he had Bruce turn into the Hulk, and spent way too much time on family drama bullshit as opposed to Hulk smashing. TIH isn't perfect itself, but at least Hulk actually appears substantially more.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

My main beef with the Spider-Man movies is the one aspect of them that should have been cheesy, Spidey's dialogue and personality, was done completely straight and dull as shit. I don't think Peter had one good one-liner throughout the entire trilogy. I'd forgive this if it wasn't for the fact that Tobey Mcguire can't even pull off drama well enough to make the character's pathos come out accurately, and just made the entire character a wishy-washy emo turd. If you want to know why the bad elements of SM3 get elevated so high, EK, it's because of this.

See, I completely disagree with this notion, myself. That so-called emo scene only took up about 15 minutes of SM3. He didn't act that way for the entire trilogy. As for the dialogue, I thought it was suitably cheesy. There was a ton of corn-ball dialogue that I got a laugh out of, though I do agree that Tobey Maguire himself never had a good classic Spider-Man one-liner to say, but I'd say that's more the fault of the writers than his own fault. The bad elements of SM3 getting elevated so high is something that I consider to be completely over-blown, personally. Like I said, I can understand why comic book fans such as yourself would hate it, but can you really argue that people who liked the first 2 films should really be complaining about the 3rd one when both of those films also had pretty much all of the same problems, themselves? At any rate, I find the movies to be entertaining and I don't consider Tobey Mcguire to be a bad actor like you and Foggle do (I've seen him in stuff I liked, like Pleasantville and Seabiscuit), though I do think that he wasn't a great Peter Parker. Either way, I still got a ton of entertainment value out of the movies, since they have a campy comic book feel to them that I like and also because they honestly have pretty kick-ass action scenes (and if anything, SM3 is the best in that department, as its action scenes hold up well even against the most recent superhero movies).

So, yeah, its fine that everyone else hates on the 3rd movie in particular, but everyone has films that they enjoy despite the back-lash, and personally I stopped giving a shit about what anyone else says about the movie. As flawed as it is, I like it, and I still think it has plenty of good qualities to make it an enjoyable movie.

Anyway, I'm watching The Incredible Hulk now, for the first time since I saw it in theaters 4 years ago. It's too soon for me to comment yet, since I'm only about 10 minutes in, but I did just get to the Stan Lee cameo.

I will say that I recently saw a list of 10 overlooked super hero movies, and the Ang Lee film made the list, since even despite "the disappointing final scene", the 2008 film "basically did the same thing, only 10 times weaker". Uh, no. The reason people hate the 2003 film is because Ang Lee is a wannabe Kubrick who decided to wait an entire fucking hour before he had Bruce turn into the Hulk, and spent way too much time on family drama bullshit as opposed to Hulk smashing. TIH isn't perfect itself, but at least Hulk actually appears substantially more.

I think Ang Lee was trying to make the story really psychological and deep, but it ended up becoming a slow and somewhat pretentious mess. The thing is, its a comic book movie, and its a comic book movie about The Hulk of all characters, so nobody wants to see it for a deep analysis of Bruce Banner's psyche and a slow plot that pretty much goes nowhere. I'll be frank: I'll see a Hulk movie if I want to see total chaos on screen and have fun watching it (though with more dignity than a Michael Bay flick, of course). The Ang Lee film wasn't overlooked because of a "disappointing final scene" or whatever those people think is the reason. It was overlooked because it was a boring film and didn't even feel like it was about The Hulk or even related to The Hulk for more than half of the movie.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

You know, I was thinking of doing short/mini reviews of all of the live-action Marvel movies that I have seen thus far (which is pretty much a lot of them). I haven't seen that old Captain America movie from the 90's or any of their early, more obscure ones (that existed before they could actually produce movies with a decent budget and any actual talented writers, actors, and directors of any kind), but I'm pretty sure that I have seen just about every Marvel movie to have come out in theaters since the first X-Men in 2000, with the exception of The Punisher movies and the 2nd Ghost Rider movie that came out this year.

[Foggle]

Tobey was great in Pleasantville! Very good movie. Haven't really liked him in anything else, though.

[Avaitor]

As for the dialogue, I thought it was suitably cheesy. There was a ton of corn-ball dialogue that I got a laugh out of, though I do agree that Tobey Maguire himself never had a good classic Spider-Man one-liner to say, but I'd say that's more the fault of the writers than his own fault.

Yeah, the actual dialogue in the franchise as a whole has some solid one-liners, but just not from Spidey. That's what I meant.

Like I said, I can understand why comic book fans such as yourself would hate it, but can you really argue that people who liked the first 2 films should really be complaining about the 3rd one when both of those films also had pretty much all of the same problems, themselves?

I'll admit that for as many problems as SM3 has, the first 2 also has a lot of problems to own up to. Besides the forced drama, at least IMO, the first's special effects have really dated themselves in comparison to later movies, including the next two, and 2 is just a bore. There's still some great stuff in the films, like some of the humor, J.K. Simmons as Jamison in general, and Harry's development throughout, but I think if anything, 3 just made people realize that the franchise just isn't that good to begin with. Like I said there are some really cool parts in the films, but the more I think about it, the more I'm interested in seeing how The Amazing Spider-Man tackles Spidey.

I think Ang Lee was trying to make the story really psychological and deep, but it ended up becoming a slow and somewhat pretentious mess. The thing is, its a comic book movie, and its a comic book movie about The Hulk of all characters, so nobody wants to see it for a deep analysis of Bruce Banner's psyche and a slow plot that pretty much goes nowhere. I'll be frank: I'll see a Hulk movie if I want to see total chaos on screen and have fun watching it (though with more dignity than a Michael Bay flick, of course). The Ang Lee film wasn't overlooked because of a "disappointing final scene" or whatever those people think is the reason. It was overlooked because it was a boring film and didn't even feel like it was about The Hulk or even related to The Hulk for more than half of the movie.

I think Ang Lee wanted to make a film about a psychologically messed up family at the same time that he was hired to make The Hulk, so for whatever reason he decided to combine the two ideas, and this is what we got.

When I think back on it, I think the film actually would've been better if Bruce's dad didn't turn into Absorbing Man, and the rest of the film just focused on Bruce Banner's character arc. I don't know if it'd be a LOT better, but that part of the film really just had no purpose to exist.

Anyway, I just finished The Incredible Hulk, and really, it holds up a lot better than I remembered. The only thing I wasn't crazy on was Liv Tyler, and that's only because her voice was a little too squeaky for me at this time at night. Otherwise, she's a fine Betty Ross. The few times that Banner turned into the Hulk were deservedly awesome and the story worked quite well.

I don't think I'm going to move it up my "Road to Avengers" list, however, if only because the 4 I have above it are just that good, but it's a close 5th.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

The Incredible Hulk is a good movie. Its just that all of the Avengers-related movies (except for Iron Man 2) are good by default, and TIH just happens to be the weakest of those films. Even then, its still a solid superhero flick in its own right.

[Avaitor]

Anyway, here's some more info on Iron Man 3.

Looking good.

[Avaitor]

Two very big pieces of news were revealed for the Avengers canon today-

One and two.

Thoughts?

[Foggle]

two.

Cool, glad I waited, then.

[Avaitor]

two.

Cool, glad I waited, then.

Yep, it gives you a chance to catch up, if true.

BTW, Thor is now on Netflix, along with Iron Man 2, for those who have it.