What Are You Currently Playing? 6.65: Neighbor of the Beast

[Avaitor]

Two random things I thought of-

1- People who donated to the Shenmue 3 Kickstarter should have been able to obtain free downloads of the first 2.
2- I'd kill for a Snow White fighting game like the one Mickey played in "Runaway Brain".

[gunswordfist]

I know what I'm googling right now.

[Foggle]

Okay, finally beat MGS4. My opinion must be split into 5 parts - one for each segment of the game.

Act 1 - Amazing. Fantastic gameplay, brilliant level design, and surprisingly engaging storytelling. Some of the best content in any Metal Gear.
Act 2 - Great. Up to and including the Laughing Octopus battle, the gameplay and level design were just as excellent as in Act 1. The writing and story pacing took a nosedive, however.
Act 3 - Good. I actually really liked the oft-maligned tailing mission, and I generally haven't cared for that sort of thing in any other games. The motorcycle part was kind of lame at first, but it got pretty good once the Ravens showed up. I didn't care for the boss fight at all, though, and the plot went completely off the deep end upon meeting Eva.
Act 4 - Bad. The nostalgia-fest was enjoyable at first, but there was little substance to this level outside of that. The Crying Wolf fight paled in comparison to MGS3's The End battle, the stealth bits were infrequent and horrible, the writing was embarrassing, and the Suicide Geckos part was just tedious. Piloting Rex was quite enjoyable, though.
Act 5 - Boring. The stealth segment at the beginning was excellent outside of the bullshit button-mashing at the end (basically rendering ghosting impossible without untold levels of patience), and the boss fights were decent enough (hearing Snake Eater again got me pumped as hell), but the literal 3 hours of terrible cutscenes almost put me to sleep multiple times.

Overall, a pretty decent game that unfortunately front-loaded most of its best material into the first half. If the whole game was like Acts 1 and 2, it'd be my favorite Metal Gear, and if the whole game was like Acts 4 and 5, it'd be my least favorite. Instead, it stands somewhere right in the middle of my series rankings. Definitely worth playing (way more than Portable Ops, Twin Snakes, and the NES games, at the very least), but I can't say I ever see myself going back to it outside of the first few areas, either.

[talonmalon333]

I really liked Acts 4 and 5. Going back to Shadoq Moses was just awesome enough. And the ending of the game was wonderful. I'm surprised you call it terrible.

I also liked the final boss fight. And the microwave scene was cinematic without being indulgent.

[gunswordfist]

The microwave scene...

I actually liked to really liked the last 2 Acts. The first two Acts were of course the greatest but I really liked Shadow Moses and not just for nostalgia since I've only played 1's demo and the only problem I had with Act 5 was it's impossible to pass the first area without stelth (Thanks for nothing, Gecko.) But maybe I'm holding that against it a bit too much since I went in guns blazing because my brother, who owned the game, was leaving soon...so I spent like 3 hours going in guns blazing.

[Foggle]

I really liked Acts 4 and 5. Going back to Shadoq Moses was just awesome enough.

Going back to Shadow Moses was what was good about it, as well as driving Rex. The actual gameplay and story outside of that? Not a fan.

And the ending of the game was wonderful. I'm surprised you call it terrible.

Spoiler

The scenes with Ocelot were quite good, and the part where Snake "kills himself" was heartbreaking. If the game had ended there (and Kojima supposedly wanted it to), I would have agreed with you 100%. Unfortunately, it was ruined by Big Boss somehow being alive and showing up to deliver 30 straight minutes of exposition and retcons. And the wedding scene was just embarrassing; I can't believe people actually showed that to Roger Ebert to try and convince him that video games are art.

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I also liked the final boss fight. And the microwave scene was cinematic without being indulgent.

The final boss was one of the game's highlights. The microwave scene was neat, but I don't really like button-mashing bits because I always feel like I'm going to break my controller.

I actually liked to really liked the last 2 Acts. The first two Acts were of course the greatest but I really liked Shadow Moses and not just for nostalgia since I've only played 1's demo

I mean, I can see someone enjoying it, but the gameplay in Act 4 just didn't do anything for me.

and the only problem I had with Act 5 was it's impossible to pass the first area without stelth (Thanks for nothing, Gecko.) But maybe I'm holding that against it a bit too much since I went in guns blazing because my brother, who owned the game, was leaving soon...so I spent like 3 hours going in guns blazing.

It's a pretty well-designed level to be sure, but yeah, the sealed door and Gecko at the end make full stealth nearly impossible. I got spotted about 30 seconds away from the door, and somehow made it through without fighting anyone moments before I got annihilated.

[talonmalon333]

Spoiler

The scenes with Ocelot were quite good, and the part where Snake "kills himself" was heartbreaking. If the game had ended there (and Kojima supposedly wanted it to), I would have agreed with you 100%. Unfortunately, it was ruined by Big Boss somehow being alive and showing up to deliver 30 straight minutes of exposition and retcons. And the wedding scene was just embarrassing; I can't believe people actually showed that to Roger Ebert to try and convince him that video games are art.

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Spoiler

I would have been disappointed if the game ended with Snake killing himself. Just seems a bit grim dark without accomplishing anything. I like that Snake's ending had some hope to it, as after everything that happened in his life, that's what he deserved. While Big Boss being alive can be called a bit contrived, I honestly don't think there was a way that the story of Solid Snake could have ended without having one last scene with Big Boss. They are basically father and son, and I thought it was great to let them make amends before Big Boss died, and to really hear Big Boss' thoughts on everything that happened. I especially like that it took place at the grave of The Boss, as the three of them are the most important and best characters in the series, and I love his final salute to her. Best single story moment in the series. Ultimately, I thought this whole section made the ending.

When you get down to it, the central character of the Metal Gear franchise is Big Boss. And considering how much he has been developed in MGS3 onward, it would be just a shame if they left his death what it was in Metal Gear 2, where he was basically little more than a bad guy.

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[Foggle]

Spoiler

Giving Big Boss more development and ending the series with him is the reason why we have Peace Walker and MGS5, though. I just think him still being alive at the end of 4 both makes no sense and cheapens the entire series' story. That, and the amount of exposition he spouted kind of ruined any emotional involvement I had in the scene.

The game didn't necessarily need to end with Snake killing himself, but I personally would have found that a lot more emotionally resonant. I've also heard that Kojima actually wanted to end it like that but had to change it at Konami's request.

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[talonmalon333]

Spoiler

Giving Big Boss more development and ending the series with him is the reason why we have Peace Walker and MGS5, though. I just think him still being alive at the end of 4 both makes no sense and cheapens the entire series' story. That, and the amount of exposition he spouted kind of ruined any emotional involvement I had in the scene.

The game didn't necessarily need to end with Snake killing himself, but I personally would have found that a lot more emotionally resonant. I've also heard that Kojima actually wanted to end it like that but had to change it at Konami's request.

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Spoiler

How does it cheapen the series' story? I mean, his life isn't actually all that important in MGS1 and 2. It's his actions and legacy that are. As for ending the story, I'm sure MGSV will do a good job bridging the prequel games with the original Metal Gear. But the ending of the entire story will always be MGS4. And for the conclusion to that, I just think it was really meaningful to have the father and son reunite and come to understand each other, before each can truly rest in peace. And again, I just really like when he looks back on everything, particularly his time with The Boss, and finally comes to truly realize what she fought for.

As for the exposition, I kind of forget a lot of it. I mostly just remember the character drama with Solid Snake, Big Boss, and The Boss. I always considered those three to be the heart of the Metal Gear storyline, and I like that it all ended with the three of them (well, in the case of The Boss, she wasn't literally there, but you know). Big Boss wasn't an especially interesting character in the 8-bit games. So I happily accept a final appearance of him as a sendoff, even if it required a retcon (and admittedly, I don't really remember much how they explained his return).

There wasn't a need for Snake to die. Like Big Boss said, he was largely responsible for the new world, so he deserved to see what it has to offer in the little time he has left. He had something to live for, despite what he previously thought. Him killing himself would be too hopeless, I think.

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[Foggle]

Spoiler

The events of Metal Gear Solid 1 wouldn't have even happened without Big Boss' death - it was a major motivation for Liquid, Ocelot, and the rest of the villains. And I hate sequels that pull the "you thought I was dead but I really wasn't!" card, especially ones written 18 years after a character's death was established. Metal Gear 2 gets off the hook for bringing Big Boss back because the post-credits scene of MG1 reveals that he'd never actually died in the first place.

The character drama was good, but the scene largely consisted of Big Boss explaining why Zero was the main villain of the entire series and how Ocelot wasn't actually possessed by Liquid because he brainwashed himself into thinking he was to fool the Patriots or some other nonsense.

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[Spark Of Spirit]

Spoiler

but the scene largely consisted of Big Boss explaining why Zero was the main villain of the entire series and how Ocelot wasn't actually possessed by Liquid because he brainwashed himself into thinking he was to fool the Patriots or some other nonsense.

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This is, like, the exact same thing that happened at the end of Naruto.

You wish I was kidding.

[Foggle]

 

[Nel_Annette]

Metal Gear Solid 6: Guns of Boruto

[gunswordfist]

 

I was too lazy to read through the last 3 or so posts about you guys talking about the ending but you both have good points. Some parts did drag on and I personally overall liked it and it had me going through a lot of emotions. I also liked the reveal of

Spoiler

Big Boss

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even if said character did go on too long. Overall, that part still gets to me thinking about it since I just saw it about a month ago.

[talonmalon333]

Spoiler

The events of Metal Gear Solid 1 wouldn't have even happened without Big Boss' death - it was a major motivation for Liquid, Ocelot, and the rest of the villains. And I hate sequels that pull the "you thought I was dead but I really wasn't!" card, especially ones written 18 years after a character's death was established. Metal Gear 2 gets off the hook for bringing Big Boss back because the post-credits scene of MG1 reveals that he'd never actually died in the first place.

[close]

Spoiler

Well, everyone did think he was dead. Zero covered that up. But fair enough, I do get your dislike of sequels pulling that "not really dead" card. I just think that Big Boss dying as a somewhat stock villain in an 8-bit game would have "retroactively" become an incredible disappointment considering that, in MGS3 alone, he was a better and more developed character than Solid Snake ever was. I remember when I played MGS4 thinking that not only did Big Boss have to appear, but I wanted him to. Questionable exposition aside, I thought the final scene between Snake and Big Boss was the best story moment in the game. Not as good as MGS3's ending (now that was emotional), but still one of the best story parts of the series.

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Spoiler

The character drama was good, but the scene largely consisted of Big Boss explaining why Zero was the main villain of the entire series and how Ocelot wasn't actually possessed by Liquid because he brainwashed himself into thinking he was to fool the Patriots or some other nonsense.

[close]

Spoiler

Like I said at some point earlier, I thought the character drama was the redeeming element of the game's story. But I also actually liked the reveal of the MGS3 cast as the Patriots as a dagger in the heart reveal, if that makes sense. As for Ocelot not actually being possessed by Liquid, I do think that was stupid... but honestly, I liked it much more than Liquid actually possessing him. I can suspend my disbelief to certain extents, but I can't accept someone's arm being able to possess someone else like that. Plus, I'm fine with it having been Ocelot all along because, let's be honest, Ocelot is much cooler than Liquid. Liquid is far too hammy a villain.

... Though I still have no idea what Ocelot's reason for doing that was. Again, I think Kojima just wanted to damage control for MGS2 with that explanation, but unfortunately MGS2 was too stupid to make sense of.

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