Buffy: The Vampire Slayer

[Avaitor]

Well I also really like "Restless" and the episode when Buffy and Faith switch bodies. Although I would've liked the latter better if Riley wasn't in there at all.

[Avaitor]

So "Once More, With Feeling" is Wiki's article of the day.

Spark, how far are you into the show now?

[Spark Of Spirit]

I'm only up to just after Spike's introduction. I haven't had time to watch much in a while.

[Avaitor]

I've been rewatching Buffy and Angel on and off over the past couple of years, and just finally hit season 4 of Buffy (I actually already went through the first handful of Angel eps, since we didn't have that season of Buffy but did have the first 3 of Angel, but I'm more caught up now), and I just got up to Faith's return.

Now you see, if the season was more like this, focusing on the Scooby gang and the aftermath of the last season, this would be a much strong season. But the Initiative is such a dull storyarc, while Riley's basically just there.

[Avaitor]

I finished season 4 of Buffy a few days ago, and went through the bonuses. In the season retrospective, Joss argued that while structurally, S4 isn't very strong, on an episode-by-episode basis, there's a lot of great episodes. I can't really argue with that. While the main storyline came off as disappointing, there are very few episodes that I feel are particularly weak.

Now to go to season 5 and season 2 of Angel!

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I think Spike and the episode "Hush" were probably the best things about the 4th season.

As for season 5, I think that it's on par with seasons 2 and 3 in terms of overall quality.

[Avaitor]

Hmm, what about "Restless"? I think that's even better than "Hush", myself.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, out of pure boredom I decided to rank the seasons in the entire Buffy/Angel-verse from best to worst:

1. Buffy season 2- The Angelus story-line makes this season for me, and I still regard it as the pinnacle of the show, personally

2. Angel season 5- It's not the tightest story-line, but this has to have the best character dynamic out of any season in the entire series thanks to how well Angel and a Spike play off of each other

3. Buffy season 3- Easily the second best story-line in the series, with plenty of great one-shot episodes as well

4. Angel season 1- I know most people find the first season to be shaky, but honestly I really liked it, in that instead of a main story-line we got a nice string of great one-shot episodes; that, and Doyle was an awesome character

5. Angel season 3- Mother Fucking Holtz; 'Nuff said

6. Buffy season 5- Despite most of the one-shots in this season being rather weak, the main story-line was terrific

7. Buffy season 7- May have been a bit too overcrowded with characters,but it had a good story-line going, and a fantastic finale to make it a great closing season for the show

8. Angel season 2- Honestly it's really tied with Buffy season 7 for me, in that it has flaws, but it also has a great story-line underneath all of those little issues, which makes it worth watching; I only give Buffy the edge due to this season having a finale that basically comes out of nowhere

9. Buffy season 6- Spike and Buffy was a stupid relationship, and the main "villains" of this season were a joke, but putting that aside, it had a lot of great one-shot episodes, IMO

10. Buffy season 4- Yes, it has "Hush," and a few other good one-shots, but the main story-line sucks, and Adam is easily the worst villain in the series

11. Buffy season 1- Nothing in particular against it, and it does establish the characters and setting, but it's mostly a product of its time, and it hasn't aged all that well, IMO

12. Angel season 4- Connor fucks Cordelia and gets her pregnant with Gina Torres; WTF were they smoking when they came up with this shit? This makes AOS at least look passable in comparison, which is saying a lot; and while the return of Angelus is always a welcome sight, it doesn't make up for the rest of the BS we have to put up with in this season

[Avaitor]

I'm back on my rewatch for both shows, and I'm on season 4 of Angel now. Yeah, it's rough, but worth treading through for the next season.

Besides the whole Connor mess, I can't stand the love triangle between Fred. Wesley and Gunn. My patience for love triangles runs thin to begin with, but while the characters themselves are fine (but not among my favorites, either), I just don't care about their chemistry together to want Fred with either of them. The one where they lose their memory is one of my favorites, since it brings the characters back to what they're acting like- teenagers.

Season 3 of Buffy is my favorite overall, with BtVS S2 and Angel S5 right behind it.

[Spark Of Spirit]

So, does Buffy ever find out that Xander deliberately didn't tell her about stalling to save Angel in the season 2 finale, or am I supposed to not be irritated every time he chews her out for doing the same thing he did without any comeuppance?

As you can tell, I'm on season 3 now.

Season 2 was basically like a better version of season 1 with better standalone episodes and so far season 3 is interesting with the mayor, but, man, am I getting annoyed with Xander's arrogance. It's more annoying since it's been a long time since he's been brought down a peg and everyone always seems to side with him even when he's being just as stupid (at times) as Buffy is.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I do recall Cordelia bringing him down a few pegs later in thus season. Xander becomes much more likable by season 5, though, IMO.

[Avaitor]

One thing I never liked about Xander (besides leav- wait, I shouldn't spoil you :p) is his self-righteous towards Buffy's relationships with demons. He barely (if at all, really) warmed up to Angel at all, and while his criticism against Spike later on was fair (especially near the very end, when everyone else seemed to be on his side), he doesn't make his argument look any better with his relationship with Anya.

But even if I wouldn't put Xander among my favorite characters, he does have his moments. The few times where he comes on top as the moment of reason are fantastic, and he gets some of the best nerdy references on the show.

[Spark Of Spirit]

My favorite line so far:

"Piece of advice, Faith: You're an idiot."

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

As a character, I just don't like Faith at all. However, thematically she was a brilliant addition for season 3 to give Buffy a glimpse into what her life could've been like had she given into her darker side.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Yeah, she works for the show, but, man, she grates. About every time she has to make a decision it's almost always the wrong one.

I like Wesley far more. At least he's funny.