Buffy: The Vampire Slayer

[Avaitor]

Cool lists! "Fool for Love" is a great one that while I don't think about it that much, would very likely make my top 20. I'll come back to Angel soon, but let me do Buffy, first.

10- Conversations With Dead People
9- Seeing Red
8- Innocence
7- The Gift
6- The Zeppo
5- Becoming
4- The Body
3- Restless
2- Once More, With Feeling
1- Passion

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Great list! Many of those almost made my list (The Zeppo just missed it). I would've expected more season 3 episodes from you, though, considering that it's your favorite.

I'm glad to see that we agree on the 5 entries that our lists have in common, though.

[Avaitor]

Yeah, there are 4 or 5 season 3 episodes that could have easily made it in, but there are also many other episodes from the other seasons that could have made it in. There are just that many good ones to consider.

[Avaitor]

I'll work on my Angel list soon, but I forgot to mention that I actually watched "The Body" again earlier this week. Besides everything else, one thing that always sticks with me is the demon that Buffy slays at the end, after it attacks Dawn in the morgue.

It's such a brilliant way to bring the show back to its daily routine. The rest of the episode wisely forgoes its traditional supernatural (or in this season's case, godly) dilemmas for human reality, but Buffy has always meant to be a combination of both. What better way to bring us back into the fold with a quick return to Buffy's slaying duties?

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

On the one hand, I thought it would've been nice if the episode managed to keep completely away from any supernatural elements, as a way of saying that, even someone like Buffy cannot escape the harsh realities of life and death in her own family. On the other hand, I can see how re-emphasizing the type of series that this is can also help drive that point home, as it's a sharp contrast to everything else that happens in the episode, but it's also a way of linking us back to the fantastical sort of world that Buffy lives in, and in doing so makes the realistic nature of the episode feel all the more potent for it.

[Avaitor]

10. Once More, with Feeling (6-07)

I think this might be the best episode of television made, period. The way the music is used to advance everyone's own plot is brilliant, but it's surprisingly enjoyable enough for new viewers to come in and appreciate without getting lost. It's obviously much higher on my list, and in plenty of circumstances would make my #1. Heck, it might right now, as I think about it.

9. Chosen (7-22)

I've recently seen a debate between "The Gift" and "Chosen", claiming that "The Gift" works as a stronger episode, but "Chosen" was the perfect finale. That is really true. I think "The Gift" is a brilliant example of sacrifice that I come back to surprisingly often, but I couldn't see the show be a satisfying end. "Chosen", though, isn't as easy for me to rewatch, but it gives me hope and makes me believe that Buffy the Vampire Slayer is done.

8. Innocence (2-14)

You could easily combine this with "Surprise", especially since they only aired a day apart, but let's be real, "Innocence" is on a whole other level, and made shit go DOWN.

7. Hush (4-10)

I wouldn't say that "Hush" is overrated, but it's no secret that this isn't my favorite season 4 episode. I have to admit that it almost stops dead for me when the core season plot comes back in, but everything involved with the Gentlemen is just, wow.

If Universal would make a Halloween Horror Nights house based on this episode, I would be there opening night.

6. The Body (5-16)

Joyce will never have fruit punch again. Just a reminder.

5. Becoming Part 1/2 (2-21/22)

A hell of a way to end a hell of a season. Both parts are also among my most rewatched Buffy episodes.

4. Dopplegangland (3-16)

This almost made my list, but I guess that I usually prefer the more serious episodes. It's a whole lot of fun though. The foreshadowing at the end is what I most remember, heh.

3. Graduation Day Part 1/2 (3-21/22)

Another great finale that nearly made my list, but there were some other great ones that I had to consider. There are too many great scenes to consider about it, but Snyder's death was probably the most cathartic for me.

2. Passion (2-17)

Seeing Giles follow the trail of roses to his bedroom has got to be the most heartbreaking thing the show had done at this point. Jenny's death was the first serious death on the show, and certainly among the most memorable. I'd also like to think that she was never entirely forgotten on the show, even up until the very end. In a way, she certainly wasn't.

1. Fool for Love (5-07)

This is a great exploration of Spike's past, which is something that hadn't really happened on the show yet, some scenes with Angel here or there. But his material is wholly memorable, helping to remind us not only did Spike used to be a serious rouge, but he's always had a soft side. But this is just as much about Buffy, as her curiosity drives the episode. I don't watch this one too often, but I'm never disappointed if I pick it!

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

9. The Gift just barely missed my list, but I just admit that, personally, I really just loved how Chosen brought everyone together, including older cast members like Faith and Angel (even if his was only a guest appearance). Both episodes had a lot at stake, but I really felt the weight of the situation in Chosen, which is why I slightly prefer it, myself, but don't let that make it seem like I'm knocking The Gift. If my list were a top 20, it's definitely be on there.

7. Eh, I can't say that I agree that the episode's quality drops when it brings in the main plot. If anything, I feel quite the opposite. It actually makes the main plot stuff, which is usually really boring, seem far more interesting. Like, when Buffy and Riley find out about each others' true identities, it feels so captivating, especially because of the lack of dialogue. It also manages to push other character arcs forward in an interesting way, like setting up Willow's relationship with Tara. I'd say that the episode deserves its praise, personally.

4. Interestingly, I found a list of Joss's favorite episodes yesterday, and this was featured on his list. I didn't even think that anyone but me liked this episode so much, but if really do love those comedic episodes with the good old evil twin plot, when it's done well.

3. I was actually surprised that this didn't make your list, considering that I always thought that season 3 was your favorite part of the show. It is an excellent finale, though.

2. Man this episode really got me. I will always stand by saying that this really helped redefine what you could do with television. Yes, I know that regular characters being killed off had happened in TV many times before, but very seldom did it happen in such an unexpected and disturbing way, especially since Jenny was murdered by a former protagonist who turned heel. That was a big deal, and very unexpected. Game of Thrones may have The Red Wedding, but Passion was the first "shock" episode that I ever experienced, and still the best, IMO.

1. I won't lie. Spike is my favorite character, and I love episodes that explore the history of my favorite characters really well, so this was an easy #1 pick for me. It's the same as how Sensui's Fall is my favorite Yu Yu Hakusho episode.

Later on I'll comment on some of your specific choices.

[Daikun]

Xander has been arrested.

[Avaitor]

So it looks like they're going all out with the show's 20th. I actually saw a couple of things at BoxLunch last week- the coloring book, and a keychain that has a stake and the B from the show's logo. I got the latter one for my friend's birthday. I'm personally interested in some of the books.

I forgot to talk about my rewatch, but season 3 is about as perfect as it gets. I wouldn't call EVERY episode a masterpiece, and I could do without some of the melodrama, but compared to later Buffy and Angel arcs, as well as other WB/CW shows, it's really not that bad here. Faith and the Mayor were great additions that helped to shake this year up, and the set up to the end of Buffy's high school run is fantastic.

Season 2 is also great, but I think the show was still working out its kinks here. Everything in relation to Angelus is tight, but some of the fillerish episodes falter in comparison. By the end of the season though, the first year already looks downright archaic.

I haven't had much time to do season 4 yet, but I'm hoping to watch some more of it later. The thing with season 4 is that it's kind of misleading. It starts off as good, and on an episode-by-episode basis, it's a good year. But the more we get into the plot, the more the cracks start to show.

And I'm not doing Angel in this rewatch. I might give it one later, but I might just skim season 4 if I do. I don't think I can handle that again.

[Avaitor]

Season 4 remains as much of a mess as ever. That said, I'd still call it a good season of TV. Adam's still a dull Big Bad, and the Initiative are still a dull group, but the good to bad ratio is still strong, with the only real duds that I can think of being "Beer Bad" and that one where Buffy and Riley's sex shakes the house or whatever. The Sopranos (which had a shockingly similar trajectory to BtVS) had as many or worse bad episodes during its fourth season, for instance, so that's a hit in my book. And the best of this season is among the best of the show, with "Hush", "Restless", and the Faith stuff being among some of the show's finest, for instance. This was still a step down from the previous 2 seasons, but I only regret parts of this viewing.

I'll get to season 5 in a day or two. That's a step up, but it does take a while for the show to do good for Dawn. I know that not everyone warms up to her, but I do feel bad for her at a certain point, and she becomes a more clever and likable character over the last two seasons. But she's not why I'm looking forward to this season.

[Dr. Insomniac]

I hate Trump too, but using your dead mom to bemoan how awful he is seems pretty odd.

[Avaitor]

... Maybe he should have left Twitter deactivated.

[Dr. Insomniac]

From what I saw, Whedon apparently gave his entire savings account to the Clinton campaign, so it kind of makes sense why he's being this dramatic about the political cilmate. But man, this is gonna make The Body awkward to rewatch.

[Peanutbutter]

You think that was bad? Look up what he said about young girls that had cancer, simply because they met with Paul Ryan. I can't stand Ryan, but Whedon is an insipid douche.



I still love both Avengers movies, but I really hope he stays away from Marvel because I will NOT put any more money into his pocket.

[Foggle]

The phrasing makes it sound like he killed his own mom. Dude has been off his rocker on Twitter lately.

Whedon apparently gave his entire savings account to the Clinton campaign