Buffy: The Vampire Slayer

[Peanutbutter]

But Whedon's deal with recent politics is still weird, because Angel had a villain who was a clear Hillary analogue.

I think a lot of people who were critical of the Clintons in the past became #WithHer during the last election over some weird commitment to party unity or just because they hated Trump that much. Still, to pivot from disliking them to donating over half-a-million dollars to her campaign is... extreme.

I know that Baldwin has alienated some of the cast, Morena Baccarin in particular, so I'm not sure if he'll be wanted back.

But I mean, a Firefly without Wash and Book will be weird enough. Getting rid of Jayne as well would feel even more quiet.

As much fun as it can be, social media has done a lot to destroy friendships and the general public's opinions on many of their heroes. Between Whedon's and Baldwin's bizarre tweets, James Woods trying to sue a dead guy for insulting him, and Dan Harmon bullying a teenager over the mildest of criticism, shit can be real poisonous to both the creative process and people's appreciation of it.

And a Firefly without Wash would be so much less fun, never mind Book and Jayne (though they would, of course, be missed as well).

Honestly, I'm surprised Whedon hasn't gotten into the Netflix game yet and made a show there. A decade ago, he was looking ahead to internet-only shows with Dr. Horrible.

It's been a surprisingly long time since he helmed a TV series, hasn't it? (AOS doesn't count.)

I don't want this to get more off-topic than it already is, but I don't think its social media that's the cause. Its because of how much more toxic politics have gotten. Really, its the mass media's fault. CNN, Fox News, etc., all the mainstream networks turned people against each other which wasn't helped by the climate of hysteria in the previous decade.


If anything, I wish social media existed seven years sooner.

[Avaitor]

My new rankings for the series, after my most recent rewatch:

3
7
5
2
6
4
1

The first season just doesn't have that much to offer anymore. I can see it being impressive at the time, as there's honest-to-god character development and even then, the show handled its mythology better than The X-Files ever could. But the high school stories are all pretty dumb. The last couple of episodes do show promise for something bigger, which it will soon deliver on.

Season 2 is still a little rough around the edges early on. You could tell that the writers were never as comfortable with relatable teenage stuff, and there's some whack ideas going on. But Spike and Dru really do shake things up, just as the Angelus arc in the back end is some of the best that the show has to offer. If we got more stuff like this, I'd rank the season higher. But even some of the later one-offs work better than before, with "Go Fish" being a surprise favorite to put on sometimes.

Season 3 is as close to perfect as a show can get, IMO. The high school writing improves a good bit, but it's the core story that really sets things going, with Faith being a great change to the gang's dynamic, and the Mayor a strong contender for their best antagonist. Even Wesley bugged me a little less this time than before. Alexis Denisof does a good job of playing a stick in the mud.

I've mentioned before that I think season 4 is solid on an episode-by-episode basis, and on the whole I'd call it a good season of TV. But's a definite step down from the past 2 seasons, with how little of the storyline works. Riley's boring, The Initiative is boring, and Adam is boring, all to the point that I can't really say anything more on either of them. The best episodes of the season tend to have little to do with the plot and are looser, which isn't a great thing. But still, we did get "Hush" and "Restless" from this year, and I do like the use of Spike on the team, so I can't call the season useless.

I was surprised that I gelled so much with season 5 this time around, but I think my only major fault with it is that Dawn starts off as pretty annoying. And she does, but I do start to feel sorry for her as we get deeper into the mystery of The Key. But I do get more excited by the further integrating and development of Anya and Tara into the Scoobies, who were just kind of there last season. They're a lot more useful and really turn into great characters in no time, while Spike makes changes that I feel are of mixed benefits to the series. The thing that really pushes this season up for me though, is that Glory is a terrific Big Bad, and I like the way they mix her "human" side in along with her godlike powers. It all melds down into arguably the most human and one of the most impactful seasons, with a perfect finish.

Season 6 is a controversial season, but I do like the Trio. I feel that the show did a good job of reminding the audience that they're goofy, but still worth taking at least somewhat seriously, based on their technological knowhow. Warren, in particular, becomes an interesting embodiment of male entitlement as the season goes on. And I really like that the season focuses on Buffy's depression, and really liked the twist arc in the last few episodes, and wish it could have lasted longer. It's not perfect, though.

Willow's witchcraft arc could have been handled differently, since using it as a drug metaphor is too on the nose. The show has been building towards her reliance of the dark arts for a while now, but it seemed to go in a direction that came off as forced and kind of dumb. And I'm still conflicted on Buffy and Spike- they have good moments, and I think it makes sense in its own twisted way for Spike to be the one to understand Buffy's suffering, but the rape scene was uncalled for, and almost ruined the character for no good reason. I am a fan of what happens to him next though, but it does drop my thoughts for that episode, and the season as a whole, a bit.

But what I really wasn't expecting was to rank season 7 as high as I did. But wow, I really liked the story arc of the First, as well as Spike's redemption, the return of Faith, everyone's calling out on Buffy's self-righteousness, and even the Potentials. Give or take Kennedy. I think the show would have still been great if it ended with the fifth season, but the last two years only helped to add to its legacy in my mind, and we got a perfect series finale out of it.

I really still like this show, and it might still be my favorite anything ever, warts and all. I may do a rewatch for Angel next, but I don't think that I can handle season 4 again.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Season three is a classic, so I certainly can't argue much with that.

I'm both surprised and glad to see you rank season seven so high. While I'm not sure if I would put it that far up myself, I always found it to be rather underrated by most of the fan-base. I think that in general, a lot of people were burned out from the sixth season and came into the final season with a more cynical attitude, but going into it from a fresher perspective it's actually a really tightly-written season with arguably the third best villain in the entire series (right behind Angelus and The Mayor as the top two) and does an excellent job of wrapping up the arcs of the core characters. It's definitely a lot better than whay most fans tend to give it credit for.

[Daikun]

Reboot in the works.

[Avaitor]

I wonder if this is going to go the same way the movie reboot they tried a few years ago went.

It'd be tough to see anyone but Sarah as Buffy, but I also don't really want another season, especially since there's no way they James Marsters could still pull off Spike (David Boreanaz could still maybe pass as Angel, though), and there's certain things from the comics that I don't want to see brought in. So this might be for the best? If it happens.

[Avaitor]

Charisma Carpenter details some of the things we've known a little about for ages.

It seems like every week, there's more truth bombs dropped about Whedon, and while his work is still formative to me, it is getting harder and harder to justify him. None of this is okay.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Yeah, I was really hoping the rumors between Joss and Charisma were just rumors, but alas. For a while now, I've been more comfortable seeing Espenson, Noxon, Petrie, DeKnight, Goddard, and all the other writers for Buffy's strengths than Joss.

[Avaitor]

Yeah, I think that's why I'm able to still enjoy Buffy and Angel, in that they're more than just Whedon. As opposed to Harry Potter, which JK Rowling has always had too much autonomy over.

That said, I think Firefly is a little harder to go back to.

[Peanutbutter]

Whedon always seemed like a douchebag. I'm surprised the Charisma rumors weren't confirmed right after he was exposed as a serial adulterer by his ex. As if that news weren't enough, Michelle Trachtenburg and Sarah Michelle Geller seemed to imply on IG that Whedon might have done even worse things than that.


I hope I'm wrong because if not, we might be about to have another Harvey Weinstein blowup on our hands.

[Dr. Insomniac]

I just remembered Xander and Dawn hook up in the sequel comics, and seeing as Xander was Joss writing himself... eugh.

[Avaitor]

My new rankings for the series, after my most recent rewatch:

3
7
5
2
6
4
1

So with my recent rewatch for my blog done, I do think my ratings are a little bit different now.

3
5=6
2
4
7
1

So yeah, my esteem towards the seventh season did definitely drop, but I still don't agree with the argument that it's worse than the first season. I still think that Spike's redemption does work as well as it can here, and I still do like that the show took a more firm stance on Buffy not always being right by the end, but the Potentials never really feel fully formed (except for Kennedy, which isn't really a compliment on her end) and a lot of the last act of the season spends too much time on the Scoobies biding down the clock before going to action. Parts of this season feels a little more dry than it should, and even the last form-breaking episode ("Storyteller") feels a little inappropriate.

Still, season 7 is stronger than the first, which takes its time to find its voice. I can see how the pilot would have appealed back in 1997 (aside from the Power Rangers-esq fight choerography), and the last two episodes are genuinely quite good, but a lot of it is rough around the edges.

The other big change this time is how well season 6 resonated. I think the darkness works, and seeing everyone struggle to make the right decisions, from Xander walking out on Anya to Giles abandoning Buffy, feels as human as the show ever did. Messy and in some points unforgivable, but that's a part of life. I do understand why this year is a turn-off for fans of the show, and I can't even totally argue against it, but more works for me than I expected.

I'm also surprised at how critical the show is of the Trio, particularly Warren, considering what we know about Whedon now. While there are occasional attempts to reach across their aisle, to make the audience feel bad for how ostracized they are, it's clear that they're bad people who have done bad things. At least Warren and Andrew, Jonathan does seem to genuinely feel remorse and wanted out, and even he doesn't get off easy.

I'd probably rank season 5 a tad higher if Dawn didn't take a while to become if not likable, at least empathetic, and if Riley didn't always blow. And if season 2 didn't still hold onto those season 1 growing pains for as long as it did, it would rank higher. The Angelus material is arguably the show at its best, but I'll probably always rank the Mayor as my favorite villain.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Yeah, whenever I turn on the TV and see reruns of Buffy on Comet, whenever they get to Season 7, I keep noticing more of the flaws. Overstuffed, yet underexplored. The show is only able to grasp the First a few times before they forget how to handle them again. To say nothing of how the production values seem to decrease and characters end up talking to each other in rooms as narrow as closets.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Was wondering when the Buffy guys were gonna make their own "take the IP back from bad creator" thing, where Cordelia's the Slayer and Amber Benson and her friends are writing.

[Avaitor]

I actually had an idea for a reboot that takes place in an alternate universe where Cordelia survives and becomes a Watcher to the next Slayer. This doesn't sound any crazier, but I'm not really interested, either.

[Dr. Insomniac]

I don't know, the novelty of half a dozen of the cast getting back together to do Buffy audios will at least convince me to listen to a couple episodes. Granted, I never really bothered to read any of Amber Benson's books or Ghosts of Albion, so I have no idea what the writing will entail besides "Oh hey, Tara's writing this".

And it can't be any less confounding than the Season 8-12 comics.

Another thing, ironic Emma Caulfield's back for this when I remember she asked for Anya to be killed off, so she wouldn't have to do any spinoffs.