Let's Talk About... Yu Yu Hakusho

[Avaitor]

If there's one thing that you can tell about a fair amount of members on this site, it's that some of us really like the anime Yu YU Hakusho. Yoshihiro Togashi's shonen manga was a fine series, but his story and characters really elevated itself when it was adapted into an anime series, and made its mark on animation fans all over. We've even gone so far as to rank it as the site's favorite Anime series and favorite Animated series in general in user-made tournaments, as well as ranked it among the 10 greatest animated series of all time on our official(ish) list. A bold claim, for a great show.

For a little while now, I wanted to try a collaborative effort on here, by picking a series that enough frequenters would be interested in rediscovering, or maybe just plain discovering, and discussing it together. So why not YYH?

Why YYH? Well, my above-listed credentials make it seem like a good choice for here, and in terms of anime, it just seems right. Bebop and Evangelion would be more agreeable starter choices elsewhere, but I don't know about you, but I'm kind of burned out on both of them, while Hakusho's serialized nature makes it a little harder to come back to as frequently for myself, and such makes it harder to become tired of. And there just seems to be more to enjoy and discuss here than, say, DBZ or Attack on Titan.

What's the schedule? How does 2 episodes per week sound? I'm actually going to watch and talk about the first 2 episodes tomorrow night, but I wanted to get this out and let you guys know a little in advance. I'll try to post a discussion each Monday, and if I can't, I'll let someone else who's keeping up take my place. But really, 2 episodes a week of a 112-episode series seems pretty perfect for a series. This isn't a very short run, but in comparison to a handful of potential series, it's brisk enough, and gives us a year of good discussion.

What do I have planned next? I don't know! I have a few ideas for other series that I'd like to try this for, and I'm up for suggestions, but let's see how this goes first.

If you're interested in joining along, feel free to let me know! Even if you don't think that you'll post every week, you are more than welcome to join in on your own pace and chime in whenever. Just don't spoil anything past whichever episodes we're on.

[LumRanmaYasha]

I'm game. I haven't rewatched the series in full in a fair while, and 2 episodes a week is manageable for me.

There are a lot of series (especially anime) I can think of that might be fun to do this with later on, so I hope we get a good group for discussions with this one.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Yes! We're finally doing this!

As busy as I am, I'll be sure to participate every week.

This is also surprisingly the perfect time to do this, since this year marks Yu Yu Hakusho's 25th anniversary.

I'll be happy to give my input on every single episode as we progress, and it'll be fun to watch this show alongside others. If for some reason anyone hasn't watched it, don't be too distraught at its length or status as a battle shonen. It's an incredibly entertaining show with surprisingly nuanced story-telling and character development later on down the line. This is a good opportunity to give it a fair shake.

Anyways, I can't wait for tomorrow night. I had my Dad mail me my YYH DVDs  (and some other stuff) especially for this.

[Spark Of Spirit]

This should be fun for discussion. Especially starting on episode 1 and doing two a week. There's a lot of good stuff to talk about even in the early episodes.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

It's interesting because I can both sing my praises for the series and the anime over the manga in particular, yet also show that I'm not incapable of looking at my favorite anime objectively and criticizing some of its flaws or weaker episodes. At any rate, Avaitor will be leading these discussions, so I won't start without him. That said, I just re-watched the first episode, and I have to comment a bit on the dub. Now, I love the dub, and it'll always be my preferred version of the series. That said, Justin Cook is really the only one holding the voice acting together in the early episodes. He's just perfect as Yusuke. Everyone else really take some time to get a feel for their characters. Specifically, I think that Sabat's Kuwabara is voiced a bit too much like a typical thug in the beginning. I believe that, by the time DT rolls around, he finally "gets" the character and his portrayal is much better from there. Keiko and Botan also need some work (Keiko especially sounds very flat early on), but needless to say, the entire cast gets much, much better later on.

[Avaitor]

I have work in a couple of hours, and I get off at 9. So expect my post to be up an hour or two later. I don't usually work on Mondays, so I'll try to have these up earlier afterwords.

I think I'm going to try something a little different, and watch one episode in the dub, and the other subbed. I'll at least try that tonight, though.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Both versions are great. Despite my bias for the dub, I will say that Chiba Shigeru is excellent as Kuwabara. Due to my ignorance of the language, a lot of Japanese voice-acting sounds the same to me. That said, I could pinpoint the sound of Chiba's voice for Kuwabara because it's a real character voice. I could even distinguish it from his voice for Buggy from One Piece. Speaking of One Piece, Koenma is voiced by Luffy's Japanese VA. Oh, and Yusuke is portrayed by Nozomu Sasaki, best known for portraying Tetsuo in Akira, but he also voiced Johan from Monster. That's right, one of AR's all-time favorite heroes is voiced by one of AR's all time favorite villains. Just let that sink in for a moment.

[gunswordfist]

Is Chiba Shigeru Japanese for Chris Saibat? Sorry, I had to.

Anyway, I will try and participate but I don't think Netflix nor CR has YYH

[goody2shoes]

Damn, I was thinking of getting into this and groupwatch sounds fun, but my HDD is full and there's no freelee- ahem, I mean I'm too broke to afford the boxset

I'll try to catch up with you guys when it's convenient.

[talonmalon333]

That's a good point, E-K, that I never thought of but is kind of accurate. Justin Cook was the only one who was perfect from the beginning. I love Sabat's Kuwabara, but he improved a whole lot between the beginning and the Dark Tournament. Botan also seems to (mostly) lose her on and off accent. In "The Beasts of Maze Castle" she pronounces whistle as "hawhistle" but in the House of Four Dimensions storyline, when referring to the Mystic Whistle, she merely says "hwhistle", with less emphasis on the "h" sound at the beginning. So that's an improvement.

I especially think the voice actor of Rando was much better when he voiced Sakyo.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

goody2shoes: Just a minor warning since I know you aren't the biggest fan of battle shonen or Hunter X Hunter. Not to turn you away from the series of course, because it definitely deserves a chance, but to kind of let you know what to expect.

On the one hand, this doesn't have the same problems as HXH because Togashi was much more compliant with editor feedback at the time, so his good ideas and concepts are executed well. That said, it's still not perfect. The early episodes are basically the movie Ghost told in anime form, which personally I love. After that the quality is a tad lopsided until the Rescue Yukina arc, because the series goes for a more generic but safer story arc with the Saint Beasts arc because it needed the boost in readership at the time.

However, Togashi slowly makes the series his own again by telling familiar stories in interesting and engaging ways that are very character-driven. In particular, the Dark Tournament arc is a tournament arc on the outset (and a damn entertaining one at that), but the nuance of the plot lies in the parallel between Yusuke's character arc and Toguro's, something that I believe makes Togashi's work so highly regarded in the first place.

A lot of his best writing indirectly and subtly compares the hero to the villain. In the DT arc it's how good intentions to seek power can easily be corrupted and literally make you a shell of your former self. With Chapter Black (Togashi's best writing, IMO), it's a dose of realism versus idealism (with the twist being that the villain is the idealist, as opposed to the standard shonen protagonist). In HXH's York New City it's about Kurapika being on the verge of becoming a ruthless monster in order to take down those he perceives as ruthless monsters. And with Chimera Ant, despite my faults with it, the parallel between Gon and Meruem is great, as they both start out the arc as naive and somewhat arrogant characters in their views of the world and other people in general, but ironically Gon is the one who starts out in a relatively better state of mind yet goes down a dark path and becomes increasingly more violent because he can't quite come to terms with the fact that his own idealistic and arrogant view that everything would go his way ended up contributing to Kite's death.

Meanwhile Meruem starts out as an arrogant killing machine with the ideal that he is above everyone else and that there is nothing more to life than his rule, yet actively changes his view over the progression of the arc and at least tries to better himself. The execution is far from perfect, but I still personally found it interesting. YYH isn't quite as ambitious as that, but the execution is a lot better and more consistent, IMO.

Anyways, I'm getting way out of hand, here. I just meant to say that the first season of YYH is a bit uneven, and that it's still a battle shonen with tropes, so be weary of multi-episode fights and the like. Granted that I love the fights in this series, but talking about those is a different beast entirely.

[Spark Of Spirit]

That's weird. The show isn't streaming on Funimation's site. But Dragon Ball is. Strange.

I just meant to say that the first season of YYH is a bit uneven, and that it's still a battle shonen with tropes, so be weary of multi-episode fights and the like. Granted that I love the fights in this series, but talking about those is a different beast entirely.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the fight with Suzaku (and one other spoilered Saint Beast) is the only multi-part fight until the Dark Tournament. The pacing is fairly brisk through the first season. It's essentially 26 episodes long and we only reach the Saint Beasts on episode 14.

Again, the anime staff deserves a lot of credit for this adaption.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I wasn't referring to the multi-episode fights being uneven. Just that the show has them, and it does turn some people off. As for season one, it's uneven in that the Saint Beasts arc, which takes up about a third of it, isn't very good. The Three artifacts arc is akso pretty average, minus the Kurama episode since he's my favorite character besides Sensui.

[goody2shoes]

Dr. Ensatsu-ken:
Thanks for the info. Yeah, I'm not expecting too much out of it. But if it's a stronger adaptation than HxH '11, and is based on the better Togashi work, then hey I'll give it a shot.

Reading about all the ways the anime improved on the material is encouraging, I really like when the staff take creative liberties like that. I'm allergic to panel for panel manga adaptations, they show disrespect to the animated medium and/or imply lack of confident direction. See the HxH '11 adaptation as an example. This blog post really made me regret watching 2011 over 1999.

[...]First, never underestimate the importance of how you convey visual information. Anime is in as good a state as it ever has been, but the >50 episode series is a dying art and the biggest reason why is a lack of capable episode directors. HxH might be an engaging story in its own right but if its presentation is poor then entire work will suffer. Second, anime adaptations where a personal vision supersedes the original source material are generally preferable to a straight adaptation, regardless of the quality of said original material. This isn't just an empirical observation (FMA>FMA:B, Sailor Moon OG>Sailor Moon Crystal) but something fundamental: if the director cares about the adaptation personally, then they have a greater stake in its success. Say what you will about Furuhashi's additions here and there; the direction and writing in HxH 1999 are far more consistently and cohesively realized than the Madhouse adaptation, which suffers from extreme disparities in quality on an episode-by-episode basis.[...]

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Oh, definitely. While I enjoyed the 2011 anime, I have ALWAYS preferred the 1999 series. The ignorant HXH fans on MAL will bash anyone who says that the anime that dares to make any changes to the "perfect" source matetial is inhetently inferior. Such narrowmindedness is the reason that we rarely get good shonen adaptations anymore.

I LOVE Togashi's work, personally. Despite their flaws, he has written some truly captivating stories that both entertain me and provide me with enough nuance to come back to it. That said, he does still have many flaws in his writing style, and both YYH and the 1999 HXH anime are far superior adaptations because they aren't afraid to call him out on his more questionable writing, and can make his stories better by either removing or changing his BS into something much more well thought-out.

One of my favorite anime adaptations is Ashita no Joe 2, which takes plenty of liberties from my favorite manga but churns out a product just as good because it's genuine to the director's vision, rather than a carbon copy of the manga.