Battle Shonen Stuff

Started by Dr. Ensatsu-ken, February 03, 2011, 07:26:09 PM

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Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on November 30, 2012, 11:28:51 PM
Tobi's reveal probably would have gone over better if it was revealed much sooner. And if, you know, he wasn't so shallow as to obey Madara because he was too dumb not too.

You know, people were actually predicting Tobi's identity the very fucking moment he was first revealed, since that specific character would fit in perfectly with the loose-end of the Kakashi-Gaiden story-line. And after waiting so long to reveal to us who Tobi is....its basically the exact person that EVERYONE predicted YEARS ago. Anyone with half a brain literally saw that reveal coming miles away. I find it laughable that Kishimoto actually tried to play off the reveal as a plot twist, as I doubt that ANYONE was really surprised by the identity of Tobi, or if they really were then it was just a reaction to how Kishimoto literally spent hundreds of chapters building this guy up only to reveal the most obvious possible choice in the book (literally).

QuoteYou know- there was something out there that had vague rankings of manga throughout the years but I can't for the life of me remember what it said. But there was a substantial break between the Dragonball and Z halves to where I'm sure something had to come up to compete with it. After all, the first part took a while to take off in popularity as well. So it wasn't like ten straight years at #1 or anything.

Actually, if my history is correct, Dragon Ball was literally what they call an "overnight success." Of course, it may not have actually gained the gargantuan recognition that it has achieved among many viewers the world over (or even in Japan, for that matter) in just one night, but the basic idea is that before the end of the Pilaf arc (and that was originally intended to be the whole story, as Dragon Ball was only ever supposed to be a short gag-manga), the manga had unexpectedly become so popular that people demanded that it continue and thus poor Toriyama was forced to endure 11 years of writing the manga due to its surprisingly massive appeal. That said, he clearly put a lot of effort into the series, but you could tell that he was getting REALLY tired of it during by the time he got to the Cell arc, but at least he gave the series a proper send-off with the Majin Buu arc....IN THE MANGA! Seriously, the anime version of that arc can go fuck itself. The manga version is great, though. A lot of people who only watched the anime don't get that in the manga, the Buu arc was really just the series returning to its earlier roots of having more mystic elements and gags/comedy, with of course enough of the serious action that was still associated with the latter half of the series to stop the transition from feeling too jarring. But really, if you read the Buu arc in the manga, you'd notice that a lot of parts adapted in the anime that were played off as being completely serious are actually just played for humor in the manga. It is overall still a serious arc, I suppose, but Toriyama really did put a lot of heart into it and really gave the series a proper finale. A lot may not agree with me, but I really feel like this was the best possible way to close off this long-running shonen manga.

Spark Of Spirit

I have to say that Dragonball was a success because it was entirely fresh. It had adventure, comedy, action, and whimsy, which are all things fairytale readers love, as well as young boys- the target demographic. It was a brilliant idea that was executed well, but unfortunately all the industry seemed to take away from it was the fighting. They completely forget that up until the end of the Namek arc there were only two "power house" battles and only one of them was cliche (though to be fair it wasn't at the time) that being the one at the end of it. Dragonball only became completely about fighting around then. Now all manga base their entire premise around the Frieza battle because it was cool.

One Piece almost nailed this perfect storm, but I think Oda just missed the mark in the whimsy department. It actually stops me just short of really rooting for any characters short of Sanji or Chopper and occasionally Ussop, and they're practically useless in the story most of the time.

Dragonball was a success because it knew their was more to a story than mindless violence, which is ironically what most mainstream media think of it as (since that's what it became by the end of it all), but that it was about the story first and foremost. But if it was that popular out of the gate then I'm pretty surprised, since something like that would probably get canceled by the end of the Pilaf arc if it ran nowadays.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Rynnec

Quote from: Ensatsu-kenYou know, people were actually predicting Tobi's identity the very fucking moment he was first revealed, since that specific character would fit in perfectly with the loose-end of the Kakashi-Gaiden story-line. And after waiting so long to reveal to us who Tobi is....its basically the exact person that EVERYONE predicted YEARS ago. Anyone with half a brain literally saw that reveal coming miles away. I find it laughable that Kishimoto actually tried to play off the reveal as a plot twist, as I doubt that ANYONE was really surprised by the identity of Tobi, or if they really were then it was just a reaction to how Kishimoto literally spent hundreds of chapters building this guy up only to reveal the most obvious possible choice in the book (literally).

Well, to Kishi's credit, he did do his best to keep people guessing by throwing in a lot of twists and Red Herrings by having him go under Madara's name and whatnot.

Speaking of Dragonball, I can only imagine readers' initial reaction to everything from Saiyan saga onward and the transition from whimsical fantasy to a bizarre fantasy/sci-fi hybrid.


Dr. Insomniac

I can only imagine what their reaction was to the first Z arc, where Goku gets a kid, gets a brother, is revealed to be an alien, then dies.

Spark Of Spirit

Quote from: Dr. Insomniac on December 01, 2012, 01:02:49 AM
I can only imagine what their reaction was to the first Z arc, where Goku gets a kid, gets a brother, is revealed to be an alien, then dies.
In Canada we had Dragonball first, but only the Pilaf arc, so I was pretty confused at the time.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

gunswordfist

I hope Shisio is better in the manga because I didn't care for him in the show.
"Ryu is like the Hank Hill of Street Fighter." -BB_Hoody


Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Quote from: gunswordfist on December 01, 2012, 04:37:03 PM
I hope Shisio is better in the manga because I didn't care for him in the show.

That's because you're an idiot who judges villains based on DBZ-logic. :>

Spark Of Spirit

"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

His motivations are shown in the manga as well. There is a bit more exposition about him in the Revenge arc that was never animated, I believe, but the anime pretty much made a faithful adaptation of the Kyoto arc, and last time I checked they didn't change or even leave out anything about his back-story or any of his character moments. I do believe that some of his scenes may have been cut (along with some other scenes) when the show aired on Toonami, but even then it just would've been minor stuff.

gunswordfist

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on December 01, 2012, 06:02:42 PM
His motivations are expanded on in the manga.
Thanks and thanks for having a brain. I just saw his first appearance when I read Volume 8 two days ago so I've seen nothing for myself yet.
"Ryu is like the Hank Hill of Street Fighter." -BB_Hoody


RaguocUltimate

Hello. Frankly, I am a horrible judge of quality in everything, anime/manga included. I do not believe my opinion matters, however because I am never informed. Granted I'm autistic, but that may not be the reason why I'm such a 'tard. If someone offers an opposite opinion, I'm afraid they would kill me if I expressed my views. I like shounen, but am afraid to be criticized by my fellow anime fans since criticism is something that autistic people can't deal with very well. At all. Due to a deficit in entertainment intelligence and expression, I feel like my views and opinions don't matter compared to other people on this planet. I'm just afraid that I'll be called a retard if I say I like current Bleach or current Naruto or whatever. I apologize if this seems off-topic, but I needed to see if my tard opinions are welcome here, or anywhere.  :(

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

An opinion is an opinion. Nobody on this board is going to look down on you just because they disagree with your opinion, so long as you don't show blatant disrespect to anyone else's opinions. Besides, it'd be boring if everyone on this board shared the same exact opinion on everything, so we welcome some diversity, here. ;)

Spark Of Spirit

If you're referring to us, don't worry, we know its all just entertainment. If you prefer that kind of material, then that's up to you. If we talk down about something you like it's only because we don't like it, it doesn't have anything to do with you.

For instance,  manga nowadays could never have a villain like Seta Soujiro and I feel that's an issue, but that's my opinion. If you don't care either way, that's fine with me.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Foggle

Feel free to talk about whatever you want! No one's going to be a dick to you, and if they are, I'll have a few "words" with them. :devil:

Grave

I could've sworn that I posted here.

In terms of anime I don't really watch any shonen anymore. I read them which I'll get to in a bit. The only shonen that I'll actually watch (and that's because I own them on dvd) are Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Rurouni Kenshin, Death Note and Yu Yu Hakusho. And those are the ones that're better suited for me. I've tried watching Naruto, Bleach, Soul Eater and Fairy Tail, and for the most part I've stuck with Naruto and Bleach for a little bit, but eventually ended up giving up on them due to inconsistent animation, bad dubs, and v/a's that went with the annoying characters. One Piece I ended up dropping after maybe 3-5 episodes. The series is far too ugly for my taste. Fairy Tail and Soul Eater never clicked, not to mention that Fairy Tail is another one of those series that cheats and used recycled animation (I hate that)

Manga-wise, on the other hand, Rurouni Kenshin is my favorite, and there haven't really been much to match up to it in terms of keeping me entertained. The only other series that grabbed me the way RK grabbed me was Psyren and that ended on a bad note due to rush productions and cancellations. While I still read both Naruto and Bleach till this day, that's only because I'm interested in seeing how the stories are going to turn out. With the way Bleach is going, though, Kubo's really testing my patience. Naruto's been up and down. I also read Fairy Tail, and that's probably one of the better on-going series, but is still terribly flawed as well, but it does just enough to keep me interested.

Anyway, my issue with shonen these days are the constant usage of main leads that has to be a Goku mirror. Seriously, Naruto, Luffy, Natsu, and Gon (potentially more, I don't know), do you really need anymore series with the main character having that "carefree" personality? Ichigo was a step in the right direction, but suffers from poor usage of main friends. Everyone in Ichigo's group are either forgetful or annoying. As far as I'm concerned Kubo should just kill off Uryuu, Orihime, and Chad. Samurai Deeper Kyo almost reaches RK, but suffers because of I hate the "damsel" role as well, and that's in just about everything. At least in RK, Kaoru was able to hold her own, and even then she was much more tolerable in the manga than the anime. And then the trend of having a child/teen save the world.... How many times must I see this.

With all that being said I don't know what Psyren did, because it didn't bring anything new to the table. Hell it has teens saving the world for goodness sake, but everything in it just felt like a breath of fresh air. It's like it took elements from Yu Yu Hakusho, Bleach, and Back to the Future (exaggeration) and combined them to make something fresh (I still can't explain why it feels refreshing). I like the entire cast of characters. Everyone used their frickin domes (not many series like that) and everyone held their own. It's just too bad that Japan didn't care for it (yet they prefer the Naruto's, Bleach's and One Piece's... "shrugs").

I had more to say, but I'm having constant brain farts