Battle Shonen Stuff

[Spark Of Spirit]

MSN is a shonen series? I actually never knew that, myself. I need to get around to watching that series as well, though.

Well, he listed Evangelion and Tenchi Muyo, and it's a lot closer to those than something like Monster or Black Lagoon.

Also, I'm still waiting for whatever the next series is that Tsugumi Ohba does. I love Death Note and Bakuman, so I can really only expect good things from that author. I just hope that he continues to team up with Takeshi Obata as his artist, otherwise it just wouldn't feel right to me.

I'm glad they haven't rushed anything out yet, because whatever they do next will have pretty high expectations. It could really be anything.

[LumRanmaYasha]

I definitely can't agree with you on the first season of Digimon Adventure. That doesn't have that much filler at all. There are plenty of episodes that don't cover too much story, but almost all of them are plot-related to a specific story arc in some way (. And, as for the inconsistent plotting, I could see that for the first half of the show since at that time the writers had only planned for 13 episodes and the show got extended to 50+ episodes at the last minute, so stuff was just kind of thrown in right after the end of the 1st arc. That said, everything past the point where the kids get their crests and after Tai comes back to the digital world were plotted through pretty straightforward, so I don't see how it could come off as inconsistent. And, Digimon Tamers has absolutely no filler episodes.

Hmm, I recalled a lot of filler in Adventure, but truth be told I haven't watched that series in years, so my memory on it is pretty fuzzy. I'll watch some of it on Nicktoons sometime and see. As for Tamers, that series is in my "like/love" portion of my "shonen" list since it was my favorite Digimon series as a kid, but I also haven't seen that show in a few years and was planning to rewatch it sometime this fall.

I still contest that if Togashi actually had a good editor to channel his ideas through and actually LISTENED to that editor's feedback, then he'd pretty much be the king of the shonen genre.

I definitely agree Togashi is the best writer in "shonen" manga, but personally, Toriyama will always be "king" for me, a lot because of the fact Dragonball pretty much inspired most of the modern battle-adventure manga in the shonen demographic, but also because his works are consistently enjoyable, well drawn, feel wholly unique, have a great, inconic sense of humor, and are just always great entertainment for me. Toriyama's work isn't as serious nor his stories as richly developed as the works of other mangaka like Togashi or Ohba, but I feel that they embody the image of what a "shonen" manga is and should strive to be: good entertainment and good fun for everyone and anyone.

Also, I'm still waiting for whatever the next series is that Tsugumi Ohba does. I love Death Note and Bakuman, so I can really only expect good things from that author. I just hope that he continues to team up with Takeshi Obata as his artist, otherwise it just wouldn't feel right to me.

Yeah, I'm eager for another one of their works too. I hope whatever they come up with next is as unique and well-executed as Bakuman. I feel that only they could produce another entertaining and "nontraditional" work like that and make it a huge, well-deserved success.

I really wish the writer of School Rumble wrote and adventure manga of some kind (shonen or not) since School Rumble showed how much respect he has for characters and how much fun he has with his stories. He knew how to take character and plot cliches and go beyond them to his advantage.

Yeah, it would be nice if Kobayashi did an adventure manga, because it would definitely be a fun manga to read (plus, Dragonball is apparently the manga that inspired him to be a mangaka, so making a series like that would probably be a lot of fun for him).

By the way, you didn't list Martian Successor Nadesico at all. Have you seen it? It's one of my favorites.

Nah, I haven't gotten around to watching it yet. It's on my to-watch list though, but I don't know if I'll get to it this summer, since at the moment I'm planning to watch Serial Experiments Lain, Tiger and Bunny, and Fate/Zero, and I STILL have yet to finish Maison Ikkoku (I keep forgetting about it and watching other shows ).

[Rynnec]

It's over. It's finally over.

Sad thing is, it'll more than likely be miles better than Naruto's finale.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Hmmmm....Well, I've been hearing a lot myself that Bleach is a lot worse than Naruto, but personally I'm just not a fan of either series, so I don't care that much. I will say that I at least managed to stick with reading Naruto up until now (though I have no idea why), whereas I flat-out gave up on Bleach after about 300 chapters. From what people have told me, the series actually managed to get even worse from that point, so if the rest of the series really is on that level of quality, then I can't say I'm disappointed to see this series end. Its kind of long-overdue by this point, if anything.

As for Naruto, this damn Edo Tensei/Bijuu arc has been dragged out WAY too long. Kishimoto has officially become as bad as Kubo when it comes to pacing his stories.

[Rynnec]

Oh Bleach is terrible, now doubt about it, but at least it's nowhere near the trainwreck that is current Naruto, which constantly goes against its own themes, has laughable villains with terrible motivations (Tobi is like the worst villain in shounen), wanking of certain characters (seriously, we're expected to believe that Itachi's this great guy when he had to murder his entire clan, and needlessly mind-raped his own brother for literally no good reason?) and laughable plot developments, especially concerning the Uchiha.

[Spark Of Spirit]

He's really going to end it with so much unused and unexplored after all this? Wow.

[Rynnec]

That's what's bugging me about Bleach ending. Since we all know it's going to be a rushjob, there's inevitably going to be a lot of stuff left unexplained at the end of it all, and stuff that will happen, such as Grimmjow's inevitable return and Ichigo dealing with Uryu's sudden turn, won't have the same impact as it would if Bleach had a few more years left.

It's more than likely the latter half of the Arrancar arc and the Fullbring stuff that ultimately killed this manga.

[Nel_Annette]

Yeah, it was pretty much the entire Arrancar-Hueco Mundo-Fake Somethingsomething Town (which I still consider one giant single arc despite what some fans say) that ultimately killed Bleach. Too long, too much focus on Soul Reapers, bullshit powers outta nowhere... the same old complaints we've had for years. I'm almost sick of complaining about it now. It's a rotting corpse of a series at this point.

Naruto... I don't think I hate it anywhere near as much as you guys. This big war arc is pretty underwhelming, but I can still go along for the ride and enjoy it as it is. Though I will say Edo Tensei has pretty much been a big, overspammed shit stain. If you really wanted to bring Madara out, you should have found a better way to right him in. Like, he was still old and connected to tubes, and then used a jutsu to steal someone's youth or some shit. None of these other dead guys should be here. At least not with their minds intact. I'm still holding out hope that Orochimaru will be the big bad, as he always should have been imo.

(Years later, I'm still upset about Deidara's death though. Not only did he die in a fight with Sasuke, but Sasuke survived a god damn nuke. Horseshit.)

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

(Years later, I'm still upset about Deidara's death though. Not only did he die in a fight with Sasuke, but Sasuke survived a god damn nuke. Horseshit.)

To be fair, that's only the 2nd most ridiculous incidence of a ninja surviving a nuclear explosion, if you can believe it. The first is how Ryu Hayabusa survives a nuclear explosion from a giant radioactive armadillo (yes, you read that right) by blocking it with....whatever weapon you as the player had out at the time you killed the damn thing. Hell, he even fights 2 of them simultaneously in a later level of the game, and survives that fight as well.

Yet at the same time, stuff like normal swords and arrows can kill him, and there are certain melee attacks which he can't block despite having the power to block a fucking nuke. Go figure.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I'm just trying to understand the idea of something in Bleach being rushed.

But still, most of the non-Soul Reapers never got and will never get the focus they could have had to make the manga different.

Yeah, it was pretty much the entire Arrancar-Hueco Mundo-Fake Somethingsomething Town (which I still consider one giant single arc despite what some fans say) that ultimately killed Bleach.

Everyone I knew that even had a remote interest in Bleach fell off somewhere in this mess. That was what successfully killed a lot of whatever potential the series might have had.

I'm also okay with Naruto's final arc. It's not anything special and taking waaaaay too long, but it could have easily been a lot worse. SJ is gonna be in a lot of trouble when both Naruto and Bleach leave, though. One Piece is the only one left with international appeal and that isn't as high as the other two.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

From what I've heard, Toriko's been doing pretty well for them also, granted that like One Piece, its not nearly as huge overseas as Naruto and Bleach were when they started airing over here (which, lets face it, has more to do with luck than anything else), but it would still be enough to sustain SJ's popularity, I believe. Its not like they have much competition from competing weekly shonen magazines, anyways, so I can't see them being in too much trouble when those series end.

[Daxdiv]

Yeah, if it wasn't for One Piece and Toriko still going on, WSJ would be suffering a lot more than it would be from Naruto and Bleach ending, since in Japan, One Piece and Toriko are more popular over there, w When Naruto and Bleach leaves, the 3rd spot will have to be filled by something else. I remember one guy I follow on Twitter said that if it wasn't for OP and Toriko, that WSJ would be in the same state it was when Dragon Ball and Slam Dunk ended. By that I think he meant that they didn't have a big follow up.

[gunswordfist]

Worse than Bleach? Is that even possible?

[LumRanmaYasha]

Oh Bleach is terrible, now doubt about it, but at least it's nowhere near the trainwreck that is current Naruto, which constantly goes against its own themes, has laughable villains with terrible motivations (Tobi is like the worst villain in shounen), wanking of certain characters (seriously, we're expected to believe that Itachi's this great guy when he had to murder his entire clan, and needlessly mind-raped his own brother for literally no good reason?) and laughable plot developments, especially concerning the Uchiha.

Meh, I think Bleach is much worse when it comes to those things. Seriously, Ginjo, Aizen, and Juah Bach have zilch consistency in their motivations and characterization, while at least Tobi's has remained the same, even if his reveal as Obito was obvious but still dumb and everything after that is bullshit. Bleach's plot is also way more all over the place. The war arc in Naruto's dragged on too long, and I find it boring as fuck, but even then I have to say the Arrancar arc was ten times worse plus Lost Shinigami and the current 1000 Years War arc are full of complete nonsensical plot developments.

Anyway, why is everybody thinking this ending will be rushed. Kubo just announced the manga's entering it's endgame when he comes back from his break; it could still take a good few months for it to actually end. I honestly don't think we'll see it end this year, but maybe as early as next spring. I doubt it'll feel all that rushed, as aside from Grimmjow, the return of Ganju, Ginjo and Tsukishima (and maybe Aizen), and Ichigo's inevitable confrontation with Uryu nothing else has really much build up in this, None of the villains aside from Juah Bac have been written well-enough to stand out or be cared about, and none of the other protagonists aside from maybe Kenpachi have any need for focus in this final battle, either. With so little to care about, it'll probably still feel dragged out, but I guess I'll just have to see. In any case, I hope Bleach and Naruto's end will give way to some new, better battle shonen series and raise the quality of that genre nowadays as a whole just a tad bit.

From what I've heard, Toriko's been doing pretty well for them also, granted that like One Piece, its not nearly as huge overseas as Naruto and Bleach were when they started airing over here (which, lets face it, has more to do with luck than anything else), but it would still be enough to sustain SJ's popularity, I believe. Its not like they have much competition from competing weekly shonen magazines, anyways, so I can't see them being in too much trouble when those series end.

Toriko's anime beats Naruto Shippuden consistently in the ratings over in Japan (actually, I think you'll be pleased to know that Hunter X Hunter also tends to beat Naruto Shippuden in the ratings, even if it isn't always in the top 10)), and the new episodes are always one of the top ten animated premieres of the week on Japanese television in general. And One Piece sometimes gets double Toriko's ratings, and is usually No. 4 or 5 in the rankings (it's typically neck and neck with Detective Conan. Also, apparently One Piece is the highest selling manga of all time. I'd say One Piece and Toriko are far, far more popular than Naruto nowadays, much less Bleach.

Jump's competition doesn't hold a candle to One Piece, Toriko, Hunter X Hunter, and Naruto Shippuden in anime ratings. As far as anime goes, baring the super long-running family programs Doraemon and Shin Chan (the former is considered "kodomo" whatever that contains, and Shin Chan is actually a senin), the only major shonen series based off a manga that rivals 'em is Shonen Sunday's Detective Conan, and Magi back when it was still airing. After that, while it isn't based on a manga competing with Jump, Pokemon also consistently beats Naruto Shippuden in the ratings (and both air back to back in Japan), but even it doesn't usually beat One Piece, Toriko, and Hunter X Hunter, so as far as Japanese television goes, Shonen Jump squashes it's competition.

As for manga sales, the top ten selling manga currently running in Japan from the first half of 2013 were:
1. One Piece, which had almost double of what Magi got. -  Weekly Shonen Jump (Shueshia)
2. Magi -  Weekly Shonen Sunday (Shogakukan)
3. Kuroko's Basketball - Weekly Shonen Jump (Shueshia)
4. Attack on Titan - Bessatsu Shonen Magazine (Kodansha)
5. Hunter X Hunter - Weekly Shonen Jump (Shueshia)
6. Naruto - Weekly Shonen Jump (Shueshia)
7. Assassination Classroom - Weekly Shonen Jump (Shueshia)
8. Silver Spoon - Weekly Shonen Sunday (Shogakukan)
9. Fairy Tail - Weekly Shonen Magazine (Kodansha)
10. Terra Formars - Which is Sennin - Weekly Young Jump (Shueshia)
SOURCE: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-06-02/top-selling-manga-in-japan-by-series/2013-first-half

Loosing Naruto may hurt Jump a little bit, but they still have 3 other regular series that sell bunches plus I'm sure Toriko and Kochikame still sell well too, so they'll still have their competition beat even when Naruto ends.

[Grave]

Guess I'm that oddball again. I actually like that long drawn out arc, but can admit that a lot of it was just garbage. But then again, I like the soul reapers over the non-soul reapers. But I do agree that the Fullbring arc killed the series for me as well. I remember there were so many people defending that arc saying that those who didn't like that arc wanted nothing but fights when that wasn't the case at all.

Ever since the fullbring arc though, it's just been hard to really get excited for Bleach. I still read it and am a fan of it. A lot of stuff that's been going on has been interesting, it's just Kubo is wasting so much time on meaningless padding, and it's making it hard to really enjoy these chapters. I liked the war that broke out in SS (even though I feel there was so much stupidity in it on the captain's part), I'm not all that convinced that the quincies are stronger than Aizen, but they have proven to be competent (unlike the silly fullbringers). Despite the harsh things I've said about Bleach in the past (it was once my favorite) I will miss it after it ends (it got me into manga)

As for Naruto, it's been an up and down thing for me. This war had some exciting moments, but at the same time it's had more moments that nearly killed my interest as a whole.

One Piece, yeah, I found it hard to get back into ever since the war with Whitebeard ended. I hate flashbacks, especially when it comes to One Piece since they go on forever, and due to me being away from it that long, when it finally did get back to the current time and everybody reuniting (I hated that by the way, at least on Luffy's part) I couldn't get interested. I may have to read this from the very beginning just to get back into the series since I used to find this to be very good.

Nothing to say about Fairy Tail at all. If anything it's becoming more obnoxious to me.