Yu Yu Hakusho

[talonmalon333]

So I was thinking about this show. And I think we all pretty much agree that this is one of the best shonen series' out there (Is there anyone on this site who even  thinks otherwise?).

However, if you could go back and have parts of the show (story elements, characters, Demon World Tournament, etc.) changed, what things would you change/delete in this series?

[Spark Of Spirit]

Honestly, if I was writing it I probably would have ended it with Chapter Black and tweaked the end of the arc.

But then, that would have been the source material. I never would have attempted anything afterwards, because I probably would have thought it was the logical endpoint.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Honestly, I like the series for what it is. Don't get me wrong, it has plenty of flaws which I'm no longer blinded to, but the way that I look at it is that it's my favorite series despite those flaws. And yet another thing is that some stuff I don't like about the series end up becoming some of its strengths later on, so it'd be a bit of a paradox if they were to be removed. An example of that is Genkai being brought back to life. It was a cop-out for the DT arc, but then she played a big role in the CB arc, so removing her would change things up big-time.

So, personally, I'll take YYH the way it is, flaws and all.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I like it as it is, too. But if I was the one actually writing the material, I honestly think I would have ended it there. Partially because I wouldn't have even considered the Three Kings story at all since I'm not Togashi who undoubtedly always has such things stewing in the back of his mind.

[gunswordfist]

Three Kings had to happen. There was nowhere in Chapter Black that they could have revealed more about Hiei and Kurama's pasts.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Three Kings had to happen. There was nowhere in Chapter Black that they could have revealed more about Hiei and Kurama's pasts.

Yeah, that's mainly why I'm glad it happened. When all was said and done, there is little I would intentionally change if I were in charge.

[gunswordfist]

  You're confusing me.

OK, here's one of a few questions I have. Was the demon body Toguro was given the body of the demon he killed in the tournament 50 years ago?

[Spark Of Spirit]

You're confusing me.

Talon's question was if we were the one in charge of the material, then what would we do differently? I meant my answer in the style if I was the one who wrote the story then I probably wouldn't have thought of doing Three Kings at all. Other than it not being as good, because I ain't no manga writer, that would probably be the one thing I wouldn't have done because I wouldn't have thought of doing such an arc.

As for the way it is now, I'm fine with it.

OK, here's one of a few questions I have. Was the demon body Toguro was given the body of the demon he killed in the tournament 50 years ago?

I thought they simply changed his own body to match what he wanted.

[talonmalon333]

Three Kings had to happen. There was nowhere in Chapter Black that they could have revealed more about Hiei and Kurama's pasts.

At the same time, I personally didn't need those backstories. They were interesting, but I didn't mind when their backstories were, for the most part, mysteries. I also think Hiei's backstory ended up contradicting facts from earlier on in the story, to the point of almost clashing with previous events (for example, Yukina couldn't have gone back to the ice world after the Rescuke Yukina story, as well as after the Dark Tournament, because she supposedly "never" returned to the ice world).

Honestly, I like the series for what it is. Don't get me wrong, it has plenty of flaws which I'm no longer blinded to, but the way that I look at it is that it's my favorite series despite those flaws. And yet another thing is that some stuff I don't like about the series end up becoming some of its strengths later on, so it'd be a bit of a paradox if they were to be removed. An example of that is Genkai being brought back to life. It was a cop-out for the DT arc, but then she played a big role in the CB arc, so removing her would change things up big-time.

So, personally, I'll take YYH the way it is, flaws and all.

Well, there are some things that wouldn't hurt anything later on. For example, I can't see any harm coming out of altering Hiei's character in the Three Artifacts arc to be a bit more consistent with how he is for the rest of the series, for anyone who didn't like him as he was at that time.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

At the same time, I personally didn't need those backstories. They were interesting, but I didn't mind when their backstories were, for the most part, mysteries. I also think Hiei's backstory ended up contradicting facts from earlier on in the story, to the point of almost clashing with previous events (for example, Yukina couldn't have gone back to the ice world after the Rescuke Yukina story, as well as after the Dark Tournament, because she supposedly "never" returned to the ice world).

You may just be confusing facts with something you either heard in the English dub (which took quite a few liberties in terms of the script) or the anime may have created that inconsistency. Either way, I don't recall it ever explicitly being stated that Yukina never returned to the ice world in the manga.

[talonmalon333]

At the same time, I personally didn't need those backstories. They were interesting, but I didn't mind when their backstories were, for the most part, mysteries. I also think Hiei's backstory ended up contradicting facts from earlier on in the story, to the point of almost clashing with previous events (for example, Yukina couldn't have gone back to the ice world after the Rescuke Yukina story, as well as after the Dark Tournament, because she supposedly "never" returned to the ice world).

You may just be confusing facts with something you either heard in the English dub (which took quite a few liberties in terms of the script) or the anime may have created that inconsistency. Either way, I don't recall it ever explicitly being stated that Yukina never returned to the ice world in the manga.

Perhaps. 99% of my time watching YYH was with the dub. And to be honest, I never actually finished the manga (I should, someday). At the same time, though, wasn't the ice world described as some sort of terrible, empty place (in that the people live "empty" lives or something)? I'm surprised Yukina would return to that. Unless, in the manga/sub, they don't set up the ice world like that. Or maybe there's just more to the ice world than that.

[talonmalon333]

So I was thinking about the question I posed, and it's really true that, for most of the show's problems, they end up turning into strengths. I wouldn't include Genkai because I think her planned revival revealed a really good part about Toguro's character. However, I came up with some other problems, and how they end up being strengths to me.

PROBLEM: Elder Toguro's return in Chapter Black.
RESULT: One of Kurama's best character moments in the entire series.

PROBLEM: Yusuke being revealed as part demon.
RESULT: The potential of the Three Kings arc.

PROBLEM: The Demon World Tournament.
RESULT: A really good ending.

I even can make some more good points about the Demon World Tournament, but I'll get to that later... I do have some things in this series that I'd change.

1. Give Hiei a better character design in his initial appearance, one more consistent with his look in future episodes. (I don't have much of a problem with his personality in these initial episodes. I think it makes sense that he would greatly mellow out after losing to Yusuke due to arrogance.)
2. Remove the point about Kurama and Hiei having previously been A-class demons. To me, it just seemed unnecessary (and maybe it was a dub error, but I remember Kurama saying that Toguro at 80% displayed more power than anything he had ever sensed before). Especially Hiei. That seemed more like them saying he was once A-class... just for the sake of him being an A-class. I also don't like to think that Yoko Kurama, in the Dark Tournament finals, was an A-class. It's just better for the story if, at that point in the series, Yusuke and Toguro are the strongest characters ever seen.
3. Lower the power levels of most of the characters in the Three Kings arc. I didn't like how everyone and their dog was an S-class, and how the A-class demons were revealed to be essentially fodder despite being played up as rivaling "the titans of Greek myth". That was a letdown.

My second and third points are bigger (that first point doesn't mean anything really). I especially don't like how the Dark Tournament characters (Chu, Rinku, Jin, Touya, Shishiwakumaru, and Suzuka) are suddenly A or S classes. Not only does that make them stronger than Toguro, but more importantly, it just makes me wonder... was Genkai holding back on Yusuke?

I think most of the demons in the tournament should've been B-class, including the Dark Tournament characters. And then some would be A and S classes.

Other than those three things, I can't think of any... There might be some plot holes in the Three Kings arc, though. I just can't remember any at the moment.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I don't actually think Elder Toguro returning was ever a problem, in my opinion. If you think about it, Younger Toguro still wouldn't have been able to kill him at full strength because of his powers. What Kurama did to him was the only possible fate he ever had and in my opinion is a far worse fate than Younger Toguro suffered.

[talonmalon333]

I don't actually think Elder Toguro returning was ever a problem, in my opinion. If you think about it, Younger Toguro still wouldn't have been able to kill him at full strength because of his powers.

To me, it looks like Younger Toguro's punch essentially obliterates him. I'm actually not sure how he survived. That said...

What Kurama did to him was the only possible fate he ever had and in my opinion is a far worse fate than Younger Toguro suffered.

That's why I didn't include it with my main problems. It, along with my feelings on demon Yusuke and the Demon World Tournament, were in response to E-K's point, in that they end up just being strengths.

[gunswordfist]

Uh what? They made it clear that Yoko Kurama wasn't A class until Yusuke died.