Things That Bother You About Gaming

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

This is probably something better suited for me to say in the Unpopular Opinions thread, but in regards to the comment about high-production games, I feel that to be an overrated way of thinking about the quality of games. Its not just Mikami, but a lot of people that seem to think that way in general. I don't think a game needs to be some high-profile title in terms of budget or even in terms of scope to be great. In regards to high-production, I have played plenty of games this generation (too many, in fact) that rely way too heavily on their over-glorious budgets and showing off their flashy graphics rather than being really well-designed games. For example, take Uncharted 2's campaign mode (I have no idea if the multiplayer is actually any good or not, nor am I interested, honestly). If you were to strip away that game's graphics and replace it with the graphical equivalent of a PS2 game, I guarantee you it wouldn't be nearly as praised as it is. All of a sudden its shallow gameplay would stick out like a sore thumb and its cinematic sequences would feel more like a hindrance to free-style gameplay than something that all of the critics gawk over.

Also, I know that Mikami doesn't just mean high budget and great graphics, but in that other regard having a heavily narrative game and deep story-line, while great if done right, isn't necessarily the one and only way for video game developers to go. I'd be perfectly fine with a game that just focuses on intense and extremely fun gameplay, and also really creative and replayable level design. It could have a dirt poor budget but still be amazing, and there are numerous games that prove this. In fact, didn't Mikami direct God Hand? That's a perfect example of what I mean and its his own game, at that. The game clearly didn't have a huge budget like some of its contemporary titles (God of War comes to mind), and it had a ridiculous story and characters that were just played for straight up immature laughs, but it blew most of its competition away with solid gameplay mechanics and pretty much perfecting the 3D beat-em-up formula which had pretty much never been done right up until that point. Personally, I'd love for Mikami (and other developers, of course), to make more games with that kind of spirit.

[Foggle]

Agreed, E-K. Mikami's comments are weird no matter how you interpret them because he's never made his games like that. RE 4 and maybe REmake aside, all of his projects have been low-to-medium budget affairs. And none of them have focused on plot at all.

This is probably something better suited for me to say in the Unpopular Opinions thread, but in regards to the comment about high-production games, I feel that to be an overrated way of thinking about the quality of games. Its not just Mikami, but a lot of people that seem to think that way in general. I don't think a game needs to be some high-profile title in terms of budget or even in terms of scope to be great.

Agreed. Nearly every Clover/Platinum game is obviously far from being high budget and they're easily the best games this and last gen (IMO). I'd take a single P-100 or Max Anarchy over 1000 Uncharted 2s or Gears of War 3s any day.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I actually think Vanquish suffered from it.

If anything, all the Hollywood movie stuff (the plot, characters, art style, setting... everything except the core gameplay) hampered my enjoyment of it. If it dropped all the "me-too" Hollywood stuff and tried an original style instead, it might have done better. I assume most people just saw how "me-too" the game looked on a superficial level and just passed it by. I mean, let's be honest everything about Vanquish other than the gameplay is pretty bad.

[Foggle]

I mean, let's be honest everything about Vanquish other than the gameplay is pretty bad.

I don't know what you're talking about, the graphics and art style are fucking awesome. And the fact that it can look like that and still run at constant 60 FPS... wonderful. I'll give you the story and characters, but you don't buy a shooter for those.

[Rynnec]

Vanquish's graphics and art-style look pretty bright and campy compared to most other games of its ilk. Granted, I'll agree that the fact that it still looks pretty similar to most other futuristic shooters superficially probably didn't do well for its sales, but I think the lack of any form of multiplayer hurt it more.

[Spark Of Spirit]

It still looks like a generic shooter to me. The Halo-looking suit, the terribad bulky character designs, the voice-acting and dialogue, and the generic robot enemies (the final boss looked straight out of Bionic Commando... the recent one) didn't stick with me at all.

Sorry, but other than the gameplay- I really didn't like the look of Vanquish at all.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

We're just going to have to agree to completely disagree on that point, Desen. I loved the look of Vanquish. The designs didn't look bulky at all (except for the specific characters and enemies that, you know, were supposed to look bulky), especially the main suit. That looked sleek as hell. The animations looked really good too. The generic space-commando thing you're talking about looked more to me like a mockery of such things which are overused in modern games. It didn't look like it was mimicking that style as much as it was spoofing it. The same with the story. It felt like it was tounge-in-cheek and purposely over the top and cheesy (once again, same with the voice acting). The game as a whole felt like it was supposed to look sleek and cool but also have a mix of camp to it since Mikami is pretty good about having a sense of humor in his games, IMO. Also, the art design for the characters and enemies is phenomenal. Dislike it as much as you want, but I can bet a ton of work and effort was put into that, and I for one can see how much passion the artists put into the game. To just shrug it off as generic and lazy is really taking light of the amount of time and work spent on it, IMO.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I'm just saying that if that's the look Mikami wants games to emulate then I don't see the point as the one game he did it with not only ended up being his worst preforming game but also partially because of the very things he wants more of in games. God Hand had a great art style, Resident Evil had a great art style, Shadows Of The Damned had a great art style, Vanquish looked like everything else.

As for the story- parody or not, it was still played straight and it was still awful, IMO. Also, I'm not sure if it was intended to be mocking since Mikami just said he thinks more games should be like that. If he wants them to be like that I don't really understand why he would be mocking it.

But yeah, I'm willing to admit that I'm just tired of military sci-fi. If it looked closer to something like Turrican (with about as much story as said series), then it probably would have sat better with me.

[Foggle]

I just loved how sterile the environments looked. The bright whites meshing with the brightly colored robots was great for me. And Sam's suit is second only to Samus' in cool factor IMO.

The story was bad, but a lot of the dialogue was funny in a cheesy way. I think it was intentionally bad, which doesn't excuse the long cutscenes and forced talking sequences, but it was still humorous to me. Not as humorous as God Hand or RE 4, but still good-bad. And actually, I think Platinum's writing is kind of underrated (outside of Vanquish). MadWorld and Anarchy Reigns are absolutely hilarious - with the latter actually having a couple of well-done emotional scenes - and I have no idea why so many people take Bayonetta's cheeseball plot seriously. Their characters (especially the designs) are also awesome.

[Spark Of Spirit]

IMO, I still think the first Halo game (and Reach) has the best sci-fi military art style. Varied terrain, unpredictable settings and stage ideas, and it knows when best to change moods. You also explore ruins, mountains, spaceships, valleys, and undiscovered terrain. It's exciting, really.

[Foggle]

IMO, I still think the first Halo game (and Reach) has the best sci-fi military art style. Varied terrain, unpredictable settings and stage ideas, and it knows when best to change moods. You also explore ruins, mountains, spaceships, valleys, and undiscovered terrain. It's exciting, really.

I agree on that!

[talonmalon333]

IMO, I still think

Just can't get past the redundancy of this.

[Spark Of Spirit]

IMO, I still think

Just can't get past the redundancy of this.

IMO, I'm not surprised.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I'm just saying that if that's the look Mikami wants games to emulate then I don't see the point as the one game he did it with not only ended up being his worst preforming game but also partially because of the very things he wants more of in games. God Hand had a great art style, Resident Evil had a great art style, Shadows Of The Damned had a great art style, Vanquish looked like everything else.

Define everything else. It does not look like Gears of War. It does not look like Uncharted. It does not look like Halo (and I have played quite a lot of Halo, and I think you pointed out yourself how Halo looks different). Anyways, just because the series features soldiers with power armor doesn't automatically make it look like other games with space marines. It doesn't even look close to any other game that I've seen.

As for the story- parody or not, it was still played straight and it was still awful, IMO. Also, I'm not sure if it was intended to be mocking since Mikami just said he thinks more games should be like that. If he wants them to be like that I don't really understand why he would be mocking it.

You're basing that off of an article that you read just a little while ago? That could have been mistranslated or misinterpreted, and yes, he has made purposely ridiculous games before. Take God Hand for example. He has also put humor even in his most serious games like Resident Evil 4 and such. And Vanquish came out about 2 years ago, way before this article that said that Mikami wants more games to be like Hollywood games (and once again, that could very well be a misinterpretation). Maybe he has changed his mind since then, but Vanquish still feels like its cheesy military elements are done on purpose rather than trying to mimic blockbuster Western games. Either way, I don't think its awful art design. The creators clearly put A LOT of effort into the design. To me, shrugging that off is like shrugging off the design in something like Mega Man X just because someone doesn't like that particular style personally and therefore discredit all of the artists hard work on it and anyone else's opinions on it for themselves. If you think its terrible, then that's fine, but keep in mind that art is a very subjective thing.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I'm just saying that if that's the look Mikami wants games to emulate then I don't see the point as the one game he did it with not only ended up being his worst preforming game but also partially because of the very things he wants more of in games. God Hand had a great art style, Resident Evil had a great art style, Shadows Of The Damned had a great art style, Vanquish looked like everything else.

Define everything else. It does not look like Gears of War. It does not look like Uncharted. It does not look like Halo (and I have played quite a lot of Halo, and I think you pointed out yourself how Halo looks different). Anyways, just because the series features soldiers with power armor doesn't automatically make it look like other games with space marines. It doesn't even look close to any other game that I've seen.

As for the story- parody or not, it was still played straight and it was still awful, IMO. Also, I'm not sure if it was intended to be mocking since Mikami just said he thinks more games should be like that. If he wants them to be like that I don't really understand why he would be mocking it.

You're basing that off of an article that you read just a little while ago? That could have been mistranslated or misinterpreted, and yes, he has made purposely ridiculous games before. Take God Hand for example. He has also put humor even in his most serious games like Resident Evil 4 and such. And Vanquish came out about 2 years ago, way before this article that said that Mikami wants more games to be like Hollywood games (and once again, that could very well be a misinterpretation). Maybe he has changed his mind since then, but Vanquish still feels like its cheesy military elements are done on purpose rather than trying to mimic blockbuster Western games. Either way, I don't think its awful art design. The creators clearly put A LOT of effort into the design. To me, shrugging that off is like shrugging off the design in something like Mega Man X just because someone doesn't like that particular style personally and therefore discredit all of the artists hard work on it and anyone else's opinions on it for themselves. If you think its terrible, then that's fine, but keep in mind that art is a very subjective thing.

Probably.