Things That Bother You About Gaming

[Foggle]

Question is, what genre is going to take its place this gen? 6th gen had GTA and its clones, while last gen was CoD and Battlefield.

"Interactive experiences" like Gone Home and Dear Esther.

I wish I was joking. But I know this is going to be what happens.

[gunswordfist]

Yes, each GamePro writer had a pen name accompanied with an avatar picture. Too bad they went on to abandon that and have 2 or 3 reviews crammed on one that used a shitty 5.0 rating scale.

What the fuck is Gone Home?

[Spark Of Spirit]

It's a point and click adventure game without the good writing or clever puzzles.

The game industry wants to be the movie industry.

[Foggle]

What the fuck is Gone Home?

A $20 non-game where you walk around a house and interact with objects for 1-2 hours. It received rave reviews, including multiple 10/10s. The best thing I can say about it is that at least it's more of a game than Dear Esther... which is potentially even shorter, somehow has less to do, and also received rave reviews.

The industry's sudden obsession with "games as art" has gotten out of hand. Of course, there have been good art games in the past, like Killer7, but still. The most common criticism I've seen of BioShock Infinite is that it has too much gameplay, and that's not a joke. More and more, gamers and faux-journalists are stressing the importance of story over core gameplay. I've even seen people suggest that DmC would have been better without combat. Really.

I'm also really worried that this gen will finally mark when Japanese developers are all but entirely shut out of the western games market. I feel like the industry at large has been gearing up to do this for the past 2-3 years now, with western games somehow always being considered better by default, Japanese games being heavily scrutinized even when they're more tasteful than America's heavy-hitters, and an increasingly apathetic overseas stance from major publishers like Sega and (to a lesser extent) Square Enix.

It's a point and click adventure game without the good writing or clever puzzles.

The game industry wants to be the movie industry.

Outside of cRPGs like Planescape: Torment and The Witcher, I've only ever played one video game that had writing and characters on par with those of a good film or novel: Nier. And, despite being incredibly low-budget, it didn't sacrifice unique, fun gameplay to tell its story.

...It was also Japanese, so of course it received terrible reviews from western journalists and bombed in sales outside of its home country. Meanwhile, an hour's walk around an island featuring a mess of purple prose and requiring only the bare minimum of player input is widely regarded as a "masterpiece." Fucking hell.

[Rynnec]

Question is, what genre is going to take its place this gen? 6th gen had GTA and its clones, while last gen was CoD and Battlefield.

"Interactive experiences" like Gone Home and Dear Esther.

I wish I was joking. But I know this is going to be what happens.

Aw hell naw.

A $20 non-game where you walk around a house and interact with objects for 1-2 hours.

Sounds like a rip-off if you pay anything higher than $5 for it.

The industry's sudden obsession with "games as art" has gotten out of hand. Of course, there have been good art games in the past, like Killer7, but still. The most common criticism I've seen of BioShock Infinite is that it has too much gameplay, and that's not a joke. More and more, gamers and faux-journalists are stressing the importance of story over core gameplay. I've even seen people suggest that DmC would have been better without combat. Really.

They want to take away the thing that makes a videogame a videogame, and they're not even aware of how stupid that is. Most of the times the stories don't sound that good anyway. DmC had a terrible story that has been done better in movies released over a decade ago, and felt like something an edgy 15-year old would write, same with God of War and the CoD's. Dragon Age seems like something that's dark and violent for the sake of being dark and violent, and I don't see what sets Mass Effects story and characters apart from any other RPG's , eastern or western.

I'm also really worried that this gen will finally mark when Japanese developers are all but entirely shut out of the western games market. I feel like the industry at large has been gearing up to do this for the past 2-3 years now, with western games somehow always being considered better by default, Japanese games being heavily scrutinized even when they're more tasteful than America's heavy-hitters, and an increasingly apathetic overseas stance from major publishers like Sega and (to a lesser extent) Square Enix.

When that happens, I'll switch to mainly playing import titles. Japanese games are about the only ones that give me what I want out of a game. Of course there are exceptions.

Meanwhile, an hour's walk around an island featuring a mess of purple prose and requiring only the bare minimum of player input is widely regarded as a "masterpiece." Fucking hell.

Having a good story and making sure your game doesn't offend anybody, or is "progressive" in some way is more important than good gameplay, apparently.

[Foggle]

They want to take away the thing that makes a videogame a videogame, and they're not even aware of how stupid that is. Most of the times the stories don't sound that good anyway. DmC had a terrible story that has been done better in movies released over a decade ago, and felt like something an edgy 15-year old would write, same with God of War and the CoD's. Dragon Age seems like something that's dark and violent for the sake of being dark and violent, and I don't see what sets Mass Effects story and characters apart from any other RPG's , eastern or western.

To be fair, the first Dragon Age actually had a pretty good plot for a video game. It was advertised really poorly as being OMG SO EDGY XD, though. Same with the new Tomb Raider.

I've always been of the minority opinion that the first Mass Effect has terrible writing. It's just so lifeless and stilted. The dialogue is incredibly expository and doesn't sound like anything actual people would say to each other. The sequels were better in that regard, and had some pretty likeable characters, but they were still kind of poorly-written in terms of plot.

Having a good story and making sure your game doesn't offend anybody, or is "progressive" in some way is more important than good gameplay, apparently.

Not really having a good story, just those other two. And what's sad is, it's not even hard to make a game that doesn't offend anybody. Outside of that gross easter egg in Dragon's Crown, this offensiveness mostly just boils down to awful, tasteless jokes from games like GTA5 (which I'm not defending). Then again, Borderlands 2, which for the most part prides itself on having Tumblr-friendly humor, also seems to have caused a stir, so I dunno. I guess you can argue that BioShock Infinite is racist, even though the game is so utterly anti-racist as to beat you over the head with it every five minutes, but that's about it. The most minor of elements aside, there's maybe one or two inherently offensive games released in the US/UK per year - almost all of them being shit like Senran Kagura. Companies really should start localizing otome yaoi titles to counterbalance that.

On a related note, it's obvious that no one who played Killer Is Dead actually understood the story, because the gigolo missions are rather obviously intended to help establish Mondo as a bad person, and you're probably supposed to feel bad for playing them. The way I interpreted the game's events,

Spoiler

he's a psychotic mass murderer with split personalities who killed his family and has a deep-seated loathing for women.

[close]

Not exactly role model material.

Furthermore, you know what game is actually progressive? Fallout: New Vegas. That game had gay characters who were extremely likeable and neither defined by their sexuality nor cartoonishly flamboyant. That's the kind of realistic character writing video games should be aspiring to.

[Rynnec]

Oh yeah. Poor advertising is another thing that's becoming a big problem. Tomb Raider's ad campaign was a trainwreck, and the fact that people were defending that shit by saying "well, games should tackle this issue if they want to be taken seriously" makes it worse. Rhianna Pratchett seems like a good writer, and I really do feel sorry for her that marketers made it look like the game she wrote for had something in it that she didn't intend to write in at all.

I've always been of the minority opinion that the first Mass Effect has terrible writing. It's just so lifeless and stilted. The dialogue is incredibly expository and doesn't sound like anything actual people would say to each other. The sequels were better in that regard, and had some pretty likeable characters, but they were still kind of poorly-written in terms of plot.

Would you say any of them are better or worse than other RPG's (or even games in general) you've played? Critics and gamers alike seem to overhype it so much.

Not really having a good story, just those other two. And what's sad is, it's not even hard to make a game that doesn't offend anybody.

Outside of that gross easter egg in Dragon's Crown, this offensiveness mostly just boils down to awful, tasteless jokes from games like GTA5 (which I'm not defending). Then again, Borderlands 2, which for the most part prides itself on having Tumblr-friendly humor, also seems to have caused a stir, so I dunno.

Eh, after browsing various Tumblrs and reading posts by social justice-types, I'm convinced people will find something offensive or problematic in anything. That most company execs are afraid of having diverse characters in their games doesn't help either.

I guess you can argue that BioShock Infinite is racist, even though the game is so utterly anti-racist as to beat you over the head with it every five minutes, but that's about it. The most minor of elements aside, there's maybe one or two inherently offensive games released in the US/UK per year - almost all of them being shit like Senran Kagura. Companies really should start localizing otome yaoi titles to counterbalance that.

I think the only reason otome yaoi games haven't been released stateside is that most of them are VN's, and traditional VN's haven't taken off until arguably recently.

On a related note, it's obvious that no one who played Killer Is Dead actually understood the story, because the gigolo missions are rather obviously intended to help establish Mondo as a bad person, and you're probably supposed to feel bad for playing them.

Quite a few would argue that the fact that you're playing as Mondo, and that the gigolo missions are still fanservicey (or at least that people still get turned on by them) mitigates what you pointed out. While I can understand that kind of argument, I cannot agree with them either.

I get that it's important to criticize something that you like (which is probably part of the Borderlands 2 controversy you mentioned), but most of said criticism is just complaining about things and accusing a work of being sexist/racist/whatever, rather than analyzing things from a story or character perspective. The former just comes across as annoying and pretentious instead of insightful.

Furthermore, you know what game is actually progressive? Fallout: New Vegas. That game had gay characters who were extremely likeable and neither defined by their sexuality nor cartoonishly flamboyant. That's the kind of realistic character writing video games should be aspiring to.

The Last of Us DLC also had a lesbian couple in it, so that's a good sign that things are getting better.

[talonmalon333]

And how about RE5?

About a 6. It's technically a better game than RE6, but I'd rather play 6 over 5 any day.

I was going to make a joke about you giving RE5 a solid 6. Now that I see that's your rating for it, anyway, I wish I went through with it.

How come you like playing 6 more?

Also, I can't say I agree with the "technically/objectively" mindset. I feel like, unless there is an obvious different in quality (RE2 vs RE Gaiden............ Gaiden is obviously the better one), then what game is truly better than the other all comes down to opinion. Same goes for movies, television shows, etc.

[Grave]

Would you say any of them are better or worse than other RPG's (or even games in general) you've played? Critics and gamers alike seem to overhype it so much.

I'm probably one of those that overhyped it a bit when I first got my hands on it. It was more of a transition period for me considering it was offering something different that I never attempted (Outside of Jade Empire I had a general hate for WRPGs). And then coming off of a game like Tales of the Abyss/Vesperia or Dragon Quest 8 (I need to finish that beast of a game) where the dungeons can feel long a tedious, not to mention all of the main characters were sword wielders, it just felt refreshing to see a main character using a different weapon for a change.

Playing ME1 now (after 4 playthroughs lol), though. Yeah, I definitely see a lot of the faults more clearly. The characters are definitely bland, although, I'm a fan of Garrus. I think that's why ME2 is regarded as the better game in the series. The characters were fleshed out more, but then again, it's probably just me seeing how I've yet to finish that game because I don't want to see it end.

But then again that brings me to my problem with both eastern and western rpgs. WRPGs characterization are terrible for the most part while the customization in JRPGs are severely lacking (I just like the idea of creating your own character and you don't really get that option in most, if not all jrpgs)

Take both elements from both parts and you'd probably have the best rpg ever.

[gunswordfist]

I consider ME1 to be pretty much unplayable. ME2 is probably my favorite WRPG but from as far as I know (haven't played 3 yet), it's story is pretty much only good for getting to know the characters...who can all die so that cancels that out.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I still need to try ME2, but good god was ME1 boring as fuck. I was also really looking forward to it back when it was coming out since I was a HUGE fan of KOTOR, but it was such a letdown for me.

[Foggle]

Would you say any of them are better or worse than other RPG's (or even games in general) you've played? Critics and gamers alike seem to overhype it so much.

Not really. The story and characters are very middle of the road as far as RPGs go. There's far worse out there, for sure, but ME isn't really one of the greats in terms of writing IMO.

Eh, after browsing various Tumblrs and reading posts by social justice-types, I'm convinced people will find something offensive or problematic in anything. That most company execs are afraid of having diverse characters in their games doesn't help either.

Yeah, like that one person who thought A Link Between Worlds was "fatphobic"... yeesh. Tumblrers give real social justice advocacy a bad name.

Quite a few would argue that the fact that you're playing as Mondo, and that the gigolo missions are still fanservicey (or at least that people still get turned on by them) mitigates what you pointed out. While I can understand that kind of argument, I cannot agree with them either.

It seems like the same people who want games to have more story simultaneously don't understand the concept of gameplay adding to said story, or a story where the protagonist is not a hero. It's annoying, to say the least.

I get that it's important to criticize something that you like (which is probably part of the Borderlands 2 controversy you mentioned), but most of said criticism is just complaining about things and accusing a work of being sexist/racist/whatever, rather than analyzing things from a story or character perspective. The former just comes across as annoying and pretentious instead of insightful.

I remember the character of Tiny Tina being criticized for "appropriating black culture" because she used silly slang words like "badunkadunk". Just... what.

How come you like playing 6 more?

Also, I can't say I agree with the "technically/objectively" mindset. I feel like, unless there is an obvious different in quality (RE2 vs RE Gaiden............ Gaiden is obviously the better one), then what game is truly better than the other all comes down to opinion. Same goes for movies, television shows, etc.

RE5 is absolutely better-made game than 6 on a strictly technical, but it is also less fun for me. I like 6 more because the shooting mechanics are really cool (if badly executed) and some of the levels are actually quite memorable.

But then again that brings me to my problem with both eastern and western rpgs. WRPGs characterization are terrible for the most part while the customization in JRPGs are severely lacking (I just like the idea of creating your own character and you don't really get that option in most, if not all jrpgs)

Take both elements from both parts and you'd probably have the best rpg ever.

IMO, this is why cRPGs are the best, as they often incorporate the best elements of both. They all but died out for a good long while, but thankfully they're making a resurgence now, with games like The Witcher, Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity, Shadowrun Returns, etc.

[talonmalon333]

How come you like playing 6 more?

Also, I can't say I agree with the "technically/objectively" mindset. I feel like, unless there is an obvious different in quality (RE2 vs RE Gaiden............ Gaiden is obviously the better one), then what game is truly better than the other all comes down to opinion. Same goes for movies, television shows, etc.

RE5 is absolutely better-made game than 6 on a strictly technical, but it is also less fun for me. I like 6 more because the shooting mechanics are really cool (if badly executed) and some of the levels are actually quite memorable.

I guess that makes sense. RE5 isn't a terribly designed game, particularly when it comes to graphics. It's just a crowning example of pure dull gameplay and game design.

WRPGs characterization are terrible for the most part while the customization in JRPGs are severely lacking (I just like the idea of creating your own character and you don't really get that option in most, if not all jrpgs)

Take both elements from both parts and you'd probably have the best rpg ever.

I feel like, when it comes to main playable characters, you can't entirely have both of those.

[Grave]

IMO, this is why cRPGs are the best, as they often incorporate the best elements of both. They all but died out for a good long while, but thankfully they're making a resurgence now, with games like The Witcher, Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity, Shadowrun Returns, etc.

CRPGs?

I feel like, when it comes to main playable characters, you can't entirely have both of those.

I know right, and it kills me because I can't get both.

[Foggle]

CRPGs?

Computer Role-Playing Games. From what I understand, they're considered different from WRPGs and JRPGs because they have a lot more depth to their gameplay systems and character progression while also featuring a heavier focus on actual role-playing and story than combat.