Things That Bother You About Gaming

[Rynnec]

Please tell me that Polygon article was meant to be tongue in cheek.

[gunswordfist]

animals should never be abused. pokemon are no exception.

[gunswordfist]

i wish i could, rynnec...

[Rosalinas Spare Wand]

this reminds me, i wish i could post a link to a kotaku article that says blood dragon could be homophobic. the author plays gay rights activist and asks a dev if the game is homophobic in a long, painful interview.

I think that was the last straw for a lot of people from what I've gathered from comments about the site since then (not that people were pleased with it beforehand). These "journalists" have lost touch with reality.

Don't call them journalists. That's pretty insulting to the professionals.

I feel like it's more that Gawker's method of business and attracting potential advertisers has pretty much made Kotaku the hotbed of clickbait in video games. Like I can remember a time when Kotaku could be used as a legitimate resource but it's degenerated into a site that wastes bandwidth writing about how wrong customers are or how video games need to be a platform for social movements or fuck there are articles about weird japanese food and shows. I like Kamen Rider Gaim but why would I go to Kotaku for a 2 paragraph article where they say the map of the city looks like the Arkham map from Batman? That's hardly related to video games at all.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Gone Home has been announced for the Wii U, and, naturally, the only reason you could possibly hate the game is because you hate Homosexuals. Surely it can't be because there's no gameplay, it can be completed in two minutes, and it's altogether poorly written and offers nothing original. No, it must be because of that. You horrible horrible bigot.

I wonder if such people have ever read a book, watched a movie, or have seen a television show. Only gamers celebrate D-tier writing as some sort of revolution to the medium over and over again to the point where I have to wonder if they've ever actually experienced a story outside of the trappings of videogames.

And even then-- Deadly Premonition, Monkey Island, Nier, BioShock, Chrono Trigger, KOTOR, the list goes on. It's been soundly outclassed in its own medium as well.

So why are we celebrating something completely average that does nothing and offers nothing new as if it does? The better question is why do game journalists treat these things as somehow "moving gaming forward" when they aren't moving anything?

[Rynnec]

I bet the only books they read are whatever YA series is popular right now, the only TV shows they watch are whatever's popular on CW right now, and the only movies they see are what's out in theaters or Blu-Ray now. Mainstream shit, basically.

The only reason it's getting so much love is because lesbians, if it had been a straight couple then people would've seen it for the unremarkable game it is. Inclusion of minorities is great and everything, but it is not a measuring stick of how good something is, especially a videogame. I'm not interested in Gone Home because nothing else about it sounds interesting, by contrast, I have a large interest in a game like Fire Emblem: Awakening, despite the glaring lack of homosexual relationships because everything else about it sounds like a well made game that's worth playing.

What I'm saying is; you have to see the product as a whole rather than if it's "progressive" or not. And gaming "journalists" are too stupid to realize that simple fact that journalists in other fields have grasped since day 1.

[talonmalon333]

Gone Home has been announced for the Wii U, and, naturally, the only reason you could possibly hate the game is because you hate Homosexuals. Surely it can't be because there's no gameplay, it can be completed in two minutes, and it's altogether poorly written and offers nothing original. No, it must be because of that. You horrible horrible bigot.

I wonder if such people have ever read a book, watched a movie, or have seen a television show. Only gamers celebrate D-tier writing as some sort of revolution to the medium over and over again to the point where I have to wonder if they've ever actually experienced a story outside of the trappings of videogames.

And even then-- Deadly Premonition, Monkey Island, Nier, BioShock, Chrono Trigger, KOTOR, the list goes on. It's been soundly outclassed in its own medium as well.

So why are we celebrating something completely average that does nothing and offers nothing new as if it does? The better question is why do game journalists treat these things as somehow "moving gaming forward" when they aren't moving anything?

To be fair, some of these games that people praise do move gaming forward in the sense that they are testing waters that gaming (and exclusively gaming) hasn't really touched before. Something like film may have touched those subjects millions of times before, but for the evolution of gaming as a whole, it's important that this medium takes that step as well. It's why I think it's better that we have some of those extremely artsy games that are extremely mediocre in terms of gameplay. Film has had it's time of experimentation in the past, when the medium was still really growing.

That said... I agree completely that people praise the writing of some of these games way too much, and it can get a bit old. Even though I see the value in some of these games for evolution, they are still far from the likes of other mediums. Gaming still doesn't have a Citizen Kane... you get the idea.

EDIT: Also, just to be clear, I'm not specifically talking about the game you mentioned with this post. I really don't know much about that game. I'm just talking about games in general here. Long story short, experimenting with gaming is fine, but some people need to take a breather.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Gaming has plenty of good story-telling potential and has in fact produced great stories in the past. You can look as far back as the NES era. Plenty of older games have gone past their limitations and presented well thought-out and highly nuanced stories with thoughtful themes, including games like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, Sweet Home, Silent Hill, Max Payne, and so on. And, of course, they take advantage of the fact that they are games and tell their stories in a way that only games can.

My problem is that things have regressed since then, and we have game journalists praising wannabe interactive films as high art simply just because they present thought-provoking subject matter. It doesn't actually occur to some gamers to take into account whether any of that is actually well-executed or not.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I'm not really sure what people are expecting from video game storytelling. It has to tie into the central game design in a way that enhances the full experience. KOTOR does this, Deadly Premonition does this, even 999 does this. Games like Gone Home do not, their story is just window dressing on bland game design.

I don't really know what the "Citizen Kane of gaming" is supposed to mean. A game that uses all the elements of video game design to create a compelling narrative? I mentioned a few games that did this. Deadly Premonition twists Twin Peaks style weirdness with supernatural threats which ties into the main character and player in a way that draws the player in and makes them want to explore the world. I don't think that makes it the be-all example, though.

There isn't one way to make a compelling narrative video game with all the different genres out there. Being user-controlled and not director-controlled like film narratives, the two can never be comparable without putting the game on-rails, and then you might as well be watching a movie. It seems like certain people think stripping gameplay out of games to insert a story that wouldn't even work in a book is the way to make a good "Story game". See, the problem is that for video games, gameplay comes first. So it doesn't matter how good your story is if your gameplay isn't there.

Just like a concept album doesn't matter if the songs are poorly written even if your message is about how bad people are terrible. That's not how you make a good album, the music comes first.

Again though, why do games need to be "taken seriously"? They're fun. If you get a good story, that's just a bonus, not the goal. If you want a masterful story that touches on real themes without sacrificing the medium, go read "A Tale of Two Cities" or "The Idiot". It isn't like there will ever be a video game story like them. By design of each medium, there can't be. Video game stories don't bend that way.

Gaming has plenty of good story-telling potential and has in fact produced great stories in the past. You can look as far back as the NES era. Plenty of older games have gone past their limitations and presented well thought-out and highly nuanced stories with thoughtful themes, including games like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, Sweet Home, Silent Hill, Max Payne, and so on. And, of course, they take advantage of the fact that they are games and tell their stories in a way that only games can.

My problem is that things have regressed since then, and we have game journalists praising wannabe interactive films as high art simply just because they present thought-provoking subject matter. It doesn't actually occur to some gamers to take into account whether any of that is actually well-executed or not.

Basically, this is what I meant. Game stories are not movie stories are not book narratives.

[Daxdiv]

Man, I can't wait to see what Gone Home will look like on the Wii U and beat it in less time it takes me to make a bag of steamed rice.

I still question how games like this and Depression Quest qualify as games. Depression Quest isn't a game at all, it's just a Power Point presentation with forced options put onto you. Like there this point where you're ask to adopt a cat, but even if you say no and wonder what will happen to the cat, it still gets adopted. Hell, even if you decide to screw yourself over, the worse thing that happens to you is your significant other leaving you, not killing yourself which most people with severe depression do. Give me Five Night's at Freddy's over this slab of crap, at least that has some game play to enjoy.

Also, this whole entire shit storm about the term "Gamer" and how they're all little hellspawns due to the controversy surrounding Depression Quest and the latest Feminist Frequency video. Way to piss on your audience, especially Kotaku since they pride themselves on calling itself "The Gamer's Guide" well, if you hate gamers, you better get rid of that part.

[Nel_Annette]

Yeah, I see a lot of people focusing on the whole cheating thing, which does suck, but that she was sleeping with journalists and contest runners to get her game promoted and that they went with it that really gets me. I trust the opinions of fucking Youtubers I watch more than I trust game "journalists".

[talonmalon333]

All I believe is that video game storytelling has ways to go before it reaches the level of dignity that other forms of media have, and that a certain level of ambition is required to get there. Some games address ideas and whether they succeed or fail, it's still a step that was worth taking. I wouldn't ever say they need to be movies or novels.

The main problem with modern games is when they just try to emulate movies and fail spectacularly. As of now, the only video game story that I believe is truly great, when looked at as a story in general and not just compared as a video game story, is Silent Hill 2.

I respect Shadow of the Colossus more than I do God of War. I think that's a good way to quickly sum up my point.

[Foggle]

My favorite thing about Gone Home is that people praise it for its supposed "narrative depth" and "writing quality," saying that the lack of substantial gameplay is made up for by the fact that it's "a masterpiece of storytelling." Unfortunately, the entire storyline can be summed up in about three paragraphs, while the actual script would instantly deflate if it were attempted in a more mature medium like literature or film. So the answer to the question, "why bother making a story-based video game without any actual gameplay?" is probably more that the studio behind the game knew it could only work in a medium where the critics and hip "in" crowd are easily impressed.

But hey, at least it's better than Dear Esther or anything by David Cage!

Gaming has plenty of good story-telling potential and has in fact produced great stories in the past. You can look as far back as the NES era. Plenty of older games have gone past their limitations and presented well thought-out and highly nuanced stories with thoughtful themes, including games like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, Sweet Home, Silent Hill, Max Payne, and so on. And, of course, they take advantage of the fact that they are games and tell their stories in a way that only games can.

Exactly. The strength of a game's story should not be solely judged on the merit of its writing quality, but on how it well it was integrated with the gameplay mechanics. For instance, as a film, The Wind Waker's narrative would be nothing special - perhaps even awful - but it becomes compelling when its status as an interactive work is factored in. You get a real sense of adventure from playing it that builds the world in a way few others have. There's also stuff like Killer7 where part of the gameplay is trying to make sense of the surrealism yourself, using both the interactive and non-interactive portions as a basis; as a movie, it might come across more like a fever dream than an actual narrative with real thought put into it. Then you have pieces such as Nier (and most of the Drakengard series, really) that - due to the way the story is told - only work because they're video games, in spite of their already fantastic writing.

I don't really know what the "Citizen Kane of gaming" is supposed to mean. A game that uses all the elements of video game design to create a compelling narrative?

Interestingly enough, we already have that. It's called Deus Ex.

The main problem with modern games is when they just try to emulate movies and fail spectacularly. As of now, the only video game story that I believe is truly great, when looked at as a story in general and not just compared as a video game story, is Silent Hill 2.

Please play Nier, Killer7, or Planescape: Torment.

[Daxdiv]

Yeah, I see a lot of people focusing on the whole cheating thing, which does suck, but that she was sleeping with journalists and contest runners to get her game promoted and that they went with it that really gets me. I trust the opinions of fucking Youtubers I watch more than I trust game "journalists".

For me it's like... I don't care she had sex with 5 guys. Hell, she could have had sex with 20 guys, a dog, a monkey, and an ostrich for all I care. Hell, I don't even care that she is a rapist by her warped definition of the word. it's more of whom she was sleeping with was the problem and all these news sites jumping on mines being like "We're not gonna defame this person," even when other website ran stuff about other people's personal life.

That and the whole Phil Fish being hacked which is probably the biggest load of crap I've seen all year. How anyone was able to hack his website when he probably would have had 2-step verification, well that and calling the place that hacked him "/V/" and claiming it was the head mod of /V/. Also, why would the hacker go after the Polytron account and not his personal account, how would he gain his account back after a few minutes? This doesn't add up to me.

[talonmalon333]

On second thought, I take some of that back. Necessary evils can be useful toward the evolution of a medium, but when gamers and jornalists are praising it as the way to go, then the future of gaming could easily amount to what it is now: cheap film copies that don't properly address the themes they want to tackle. My point would likely hold more validity if people were giving more money to the Deus Exs of the world, than the God of Wars and the like.

I guess I was thinking that, like all mediums, gaming could potentially be built off of and improve from both its successes and its failures. But looking at the current state of things, it seems like failures are the way to go.