Fighting Games

[Markness]

Thank you for the info.

Outside of Mortal Kombat and, surprisingly to a lesser extent, Street Fighter, people tend to not care about fighting games in my area. Do people just don't know that other franchises besides those two exist or do they just disregard them? I got into other fighting game franchises because I am not satisfied with only playing video games that get ads or are part of the tastes of the "cool crowd". 

[Mustang]

The unfortunate part about it is netcode being on the poor side for the majority of the other fighting games you're wondering about (assuming you're talking about the Under Nights and GranBlue's?). Another part has to do with folks not liking anime fighters for some unknown reason which is unfortunate because there was so much whining about Street Fighter 5 for the last 3 years and no one wanted to migrate to other games (e-sports and the money that goes toward the tourney side of everything)

[Mustang]

I suppose you all know that Evo has been cancelled for this year but they still plan to do something for online. I'm curious to know what games will be in the lineup now.

And then going forth, we don't know how long this'll be going on so I wonder if this will give devs an incentive to do whatever it takes to get the netcode working properly, because the way the FGC has been lately, it's GGPO or bust (or whatever netcode that functions without problems)

[Mustang]

I never brought it up but how does everyone feel about tier lists?

I love the discussions it can generate within the community when they don't go buck wild, but lately, namely the DBFz tier list is a bit concerning. For starters, I've been seeing a lot of people do something along the lines of going from

SS/S+
S
S-
A+
A
A-
B

TT (top tier)
S
S-
A+
A
A-
B
C

Mind you, this has only been for DBFz and Mortal Kombat. I get what they're trying to say with tier lists like these (they're trying to depict that there are no wack or weak characters), but the problem to me is there should never be anything above S. In my mind there is no such thing as SS or S+.

To stick with DBFz for a little bit, it also seem like people just don't know what being S tier really is or maybe I'm too old school, but I always thought being S tier meant cheap/broken/dominate the rest of the cast. How can there be 10 broken characters? Having tools for everything does not equate to being broken. It just mean you have an answer for every situation. Cheap is, well, you know, cheap. Breaking the game or glitches and stuff. Now if you're just naming the top 10 characters that's fine, but it would probably be more beneficial to have a list like

Top Tier
High Tier
Mid Tier
Low Tier

Having said that, another issue I see is that DBFz being a team base game but a lot of these folks making these lists, while they go into detail on why they put said character wherever, they really don't go over much (as confusing as that sound). Like take, UMvC3 for example. Back then there's a reason you had people making 3 separate tier lists (point, mid, anchors). Certain characters are stronger at certain positions (And then you had your exceptions). Same in DBFz except it just seem like nobody is really going into detail about other positions for said characters. Take Yamcha and Trunks. These 2 might be the best anchors in the game right now, but what if I wanted Yamcha or Trunks on point? Nobody goes over these things. We just know that they might be the best anchors. People talk about Bardock's neutral being so good, but they never talk about him in the anchor position. We just know he is best at point or mid and his B assist is broken.

We don't even do match up charts anymore and those were usually how tier lists were determined. I mean, for sure your pro players are gonna do the lab work on everything because that's their job, but the rest of us that cries this character is too strong, NERF, go sit down somewhere. I don't even want to go there, that's not what this is about 

As I've stated this is a team based game and I'm looking at Cloud805's (everyone has roughly the same S tier just using him as an example) tier list and he has Base Vegeta, Bardock, Broly, Teen Gohan, Kid Buu, Frieza and Yamcha in his S tier. Based on that I should be able to just pick 3 characters, lets say Teen Gohan, Bardock and Base Vegeta. 3 S Tier characters on the same team and lets say I know how to play the game and all that jazz and I want to take this to  a tournament. I should smoke the competition. Problem is I have 3 point characters on my team. 3 mid characters on my team. 1 potential anchor. When you watch these videos of them explaining there tier lists they leave out too much (and Cloud should know better than this, he comes from before the 16 era). This isn't Marvel 2 where I can pick between the 4 best characters and go to town. Sure I should be able to figure all this out on my own, but when you're creating a tier list you're looking for some form of discussion. Then let's talk about all of it. Don't leave nothing off the table. Like I said, I get that they are trying to condense all of it into one video (20min to 45mins) but you just can't do that.

That's just where my head has been at lately. Overall, all these tier list has been good, but they do leave out a lot. / rant

[Mustang]

Ok, DAMN! Trying to get my head wrapped around all of this.

So you can probably guarantee there will be no EVO online which is unimportant.

https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/hjfv0y/summary_of_sexual_and_nonsexual_allegations/

This is crazy. I've heard some crazy stories from back in the day when it comes to the FGC, but this is (can I go off for a minute?), THIS IS FUCKED UP. I don't play Smash. Never dealt with anything involving Smash Bros scene, but THIS SHIT RIGHT HERE, man.... So we have rape and pedophilia.

Like, WHAT THE FUCK. So when I went to EVO back in 2012 and if you were to ask me how did it go, I would've told you that it was great. Being surrounded by so many people that shared the same passion for fighting games that you do and hearing the roar of the crowd when something amazing happens on screen, it's, to me, the pinnacle of hype. The after parties, I never attended. I don't care about that stuff, but I was told that all that would go down is drinking and money matches. I've seen a lot of these money matches streamed. Never in my wildest imagination would I think I'd be hearing about shit like this. I shouldn't be this surprised (the FGC as a whole is full of weirdos), but I am, and very disappointed in the community. And I thought the online FGC was bad, but this. They gotta clean this shit up. Expeditiously.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I dusted off my arcade stick this week (quite literally, as it had accumulated quite a bit to the point where I applied a bit of cleaner to give it a thorough wipe-down), and finally replaced the ball top with a battop, which is much easier for me to use, personally.

I've been playing Darkstallers 3 on the PS3 and also a bit of CVS2 as well. I really wish the latter was online as it looks like it would be so fun to learn and experiment against other human players, especially with Capcom's 6-button interpretation of traditionally 4-button SNK characters. That said, DS3 is also pretty fucking grand and right now I'm settling on learning the ins-and-outs of J. Talbain before trying my hand at him online (assuming I can even find people online to play against). Can I just say that classic arcade fighter Capcom games have some of the most gorgeous sprite-work ever put to screen? These games still blow me away with how good they look even to this day.

[Mustang]

CVS2 eh. I think people hold that game to the same degree of 3rd Strike and MVC2 so I'm a little surprised that there's been no attempt to get it to the PS4. I can't remember who it is, but one of those companies have been updating old games with roll back netcode. I think the last game that got updated was KoF98 (not sure, but I think it was certainly a SNK game). So yeah, I'm a little surprised there's been nothing regarding CVS2.

Anyway, a lot of my attention has been focused on Tekken 7 and DBFz. I've been watching a guy name K-Wiss playing Hwaorang and he's been showing me some combos that I've never seen any other Hwaorang players do. The way he moves with Hwaorang is impressive as well and he's doing this on pad. Salute.

I'm gonna go on another little tangent real quick. I salute all US DBFz players. They've been putting out content like crazy. Whether they're playing in a tournament or just playing games online they've been putting out content. I don't really pay attention to the SF5 scene, but I see them putting out content as well. Other scenes though, I see nothing. It's bad enough I don't know the players from other scenes. I get it there's been so much going on, but to the point where no one is putting out anything? Really? And when I say other scenes I mean the Guilty Gears, BlazBlue, Grand Blue. Everything I've been watching and learning from has been from Europe and Japan. Step up US.

[Mustang]

So Capcom announced 4 more characters for Street Fighter 5 last week; Dan, Rose, Oro, Akira. Don't care for none of them except Akira.
Earlier today I saw Justin Wong playing around with Akira in Rival Schools. I wish Capcom would do a remaster or remake of the older games because from what I saw of Justin, this game needs to be explored some more. I would love to see some high level play of that game because the way it look like it plays, that game could be best fighting game ever.

[Mustang]

https://youtu.be/2yxeR8kWc78

ASW stepping on all throats that are supposed to be competing with them. That being said, no idea what this game is based on. I just know it looks good.

[Markness]

So glad to see that Cham Cham will be playable for SS 2019 this March! I've missed her and thought SNK forgot about her. They are doing what Capcom isn't doing for Felicia and considering Yoshinori Ono has resigned from Capcom, we'll probably never see her again. 

[Mustang]

I'm going to give Capcom about 2 years to see how it goes without Ono before I start going in on them. Personally, I think he was holding them back. I think the possibility of getting a new Darkstalkers is higher now with Ono gone that's for sure, but we'll see.

As for KOF15, terrible trailer but I like the artwork. It's certainly better than KOF14. I think the only thing most fighting games have to worry about this day in age in Netcode and I'm hoping that with all the testing SNK've doing with older games for rollback netcode that they implement it into KOF15 (I mean they have to at this point if they had success)

[Markness]

I'm going to give Capcom about 2 years to see how it goes without Ono before I start going in on them. Personally, I think he was holding them back. I think the possibility of getting a new Darkstalkers is higher now with Ono gone that's for sure, but we'll see.

As for KOF15, terrible trailer but I like the artwork. It's certainly better than KOF14. I think the only thing most fighting games have to worry about this day in age in Netcode and I'm hoping that with all the testing SNK've doing with older games for rollback netcode that they implement it into KOF15 (I mean they have to at this point if they had success)

How so? It looked like he was the only one who wanted Darkstalkers back unless I missed something.

I feel the same about KOF XV's trailer. Good artwork but way too many fast edits and too much power flexing from the characters. I am honestly more excited for Cham Chan's return to the fighting game medium.

[Mustang]

No evidence to be honest  . I'm going off of Akira (Project Justice / Rival Schools) coming to Street Fighter 5. Thinking back on it I do remember Ono wanting to do Darkstalkers, but the way he went about it was wrong. I'm also going by the way Capcom is communicating now compared to when Ono was there (despite Dan being the first character no one asked for).

[Mustang]

There's kind of been quite a few things going on that I've been letting go by without saying anything. I'm going to try to talk about all of it in this post. I'll start with Street Fighter 5 first since it almost got me riled up.

Street Fighter 5: Championship Edition winter update
Let me start this off with this first. I hate announcements of an announcement. That seems to be the trendy thing to do these days and I hate it. Anyway, https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2021/feb/11/eleven-revealed-street-fighter-5/

So the very first thing I did when I saw that was take everything I said about "Capcom listening to their fans" back because I just saw the picture and nearly lost it. So I did end up skimming the article (I hate reading these days unless it's a comic or manga or actual game information I deem important to me) and saw that Eleven is coming as a bonus. Alright, cool. Did I forget to mention that I gave up on this game? So I shouldn't be talking about it really, but there have been times when I've been tempted to get back into it because, well, let's face it, despite everyone always bitching about how bad Street Fighter 5 is (which I disagree with 100%) they're still playing it. The only reason I'm not is because I still can't find a character. The way each character play is fun. Like the changes and whatnot (outside of Cody. They murdered my guy. On top of that, his animation is God awful). But I still can't get into these characters. I look at the 5 DLC characters coming and while I'm intrigued by Akira, that wasn't my go-to in Rival Schools (from what little I've played of it and can remember). I look at Oro, Dan (HELL NO), and Rose and none of those I find enticing either.

King of Fighters 15
I don't like these mini trailers that are 45 sec. It's bad enough DBFz is roughly 2 min and SNK comes with something shorter. Yuck. That being said I'm definitely feeling the overall look of it despite seeing the similarities of KOF14. My problem with KOF14 was that it looked like it was a PS2 game on the PS3. And it looked so dull (with an anime style to it). Anyway, I don't care about anyone except K'. I need to see K' before I even begin to think about other characters. Iori looks cool as always though. Joe looks interesting too.

Guilty Gear StrIVe
Old heads (I classify as one as well) are their own worst enemies I swear. Let me get this other stuff out of the way first and then I'll come back to us old people. If there's anyway to change up a legacy game this would be the way I'd do it. I most certainly shouldn't need to speak about how gorgeous the game looks but ASW is really outshining everyone here with their animations. Nagoriyuki is insane. Axl might be broken and I love every bit of it. I'm hoping Johnny is in it but I have some fall back characters just in case.

NOW, old people. This, from what I can see is still Guilty Gear. I get it, change is bad, but you also have to remember you're not Tekken (and Tekken has fallen into this as well). Tekken's fanbase is way bigger than Guilty Gears and all they did was add in a slow motion feature to draw in more people. Tekken is probably the hardest game to play imo, but on a casual level people can just pick up and play. Not so much in Guilty Gear. You have all these mechanics in Guilty Gear to the point it can be overbearing and intimidating to a casual player trying to learn. All this complaining that Strive is not Guilty Gear is a bunch of bullshit. From what I've seen it's still Guilty Gear. Maybe toned down a bit (Think Street Fighter 4) with the amount of combos that can be done (to me that's what's been trimmed) or you can say tuned to the max because the damage is through the roof (Almost look like you can be killed in 2 touches). In the end, calm down old people. ASW is trying to draw in newer people. That is all.

[Markness]

I still haven't played SF V CE but apparently it's cheap so I might get it once it's completely updated. I still agree with you on the trailer for KOF XV. I hope it will be a dream match like XIV should've been since that was the historic trend for KOF until SNK decided to focus on pachinko games for a spell.

I am fine with what ASW is doing with Guilty Gear Strive. The art direction is still fitting for the franchise and it's still fast paced.