Rurouni Kenshin

[Grave]

I understand that shonen is aimed at teens and whatnot, but my goodness, you'd think people would understand the success of this series and try having adults be your main protagonist for a change.

Toriko is 25, and all the other main characters are in their mid-20's as well.

You don't say

There's definitely something that's keeping me from even bothering to check that series out. What is this character like? If he's anything like a Goku clone I might've just answered why I haven't bothered with it.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I believe that Grave is referring more to the tone of the character rather than just their age alone. Toriko is a mostly lighthearted series, and while the character is certainly not childish from what I've read of the manga, he's also not the same breed of character as someone like Kenshin, who aside from being an adult character, also encompasses many adult themes, like regret and atonement. Ironically, Kenshin's idealistic nature in his mid-teens (yes, he was the same age as most shounen protagonists when he was the Hitokiri) is portrayed in a negative light, as that's what lead him down the dark path that he initially chose. As an adult he bears a lot of weight for his past sins, but he also has learned to move on with his life and has long since stopped living in the past. He's certainly not proud of the things that he did in his youth, but because of that he has a hard-earned wisdom about life that's really refreshing for a shounen protagonist to have. And, rather than be a mopey rain-cloud type character, Watsuki does a smart thing by still making him traditionally good natured and optimistic like most shounen characters. It's just that Kenshin actually has the substance as a character who has experienced adulthood to back it up without coming off as an annoying little prick, unlike most teenage shounen protagonists.

[Spark Of Spirit]

That's why people who want a series focused on the Hitokiri Battousai are missing the point of the character. Kenshin is one of the best shonen protagonists because he was already there and he grew up from that. The man at the end of the Revenge Arc is a much better person than the kid before the war.

[Grave]

I believe that Grave is referring more to the tone of the character rather than just their age alone. Toriko is a mostly lighthearted series, and while the character is certainly not childish from what I've read of the manga, he's also not the same breed of character as someone like Kenshin, who aside from being an adult character, also encompasses many adult themes, like regret and atonement. Ironically, Kenshin's idealistic nature in his mid-teens (yes, he was the same age as most shounen protagonists when he was the Hitokiri) is portrayed in a negative light, as that's what lead him down the dark path that he initially chose. As an adult he bears a lot of weight for his past sins, but he also has learned to move on with his life and has long since stopped living in the past. He's certainly not proud of the things that he did in his youth, but because of that he has a hard-earned wisdom about life that's really refreshing for a shounen protagonist to have. And, rather than be a mopey rain-cloud type character, Watsuki does a smart thing by still making him traditionally good natured and optimistic like most shounen characters. It's just that Kenshin actually has the substance as a character who has experienced adulthood to back it up without coming off as an annoying little prick, unlike most teenage shounen protagonists.

That's why people who want a series focused on the Hitokiri Battousai are missing the point of the character. Kenshin is one of the best shonen protagonists because he was already there and he grew up from that. The man at the end of the Revenge Arc is a much better person than the kid before the war.

Even though it came out as I meant age alone, that was not my intent. Both these posts are spot on. While I don't mind seeing what these characters are going through and all, it's just that at this time and age (with my tolerance level being at an all time low), I really don't want to see what characters are going through (at least not so many series at the same time), whereas I'd much rather see how they're coping with the outcome of they're choices and whatnot.

[LumRanmaYasha]

There's definitely something that's keeping me from even bothering to check that series out. What is this character like? If he's anything like a Goku clone I might've just answered why I haven't bothered with it.

Toriko has his goofy side, though it's seen less and less as the series goes on. Komatsu and Sunny are usually delegated comic relief, but Komatsu is pretty likable and Sunny doesn't appear in the story too much. Toriko's always perfectly serious in fights and dangerous situations, anyway, and he's definitely not naive and doesn't spout crap about friendship every two seconds like other shonen protagonists, so he's not that much like most Goku clones. I actually think the series would appeal to you, because the manga has a lot of brutal, bloody fights and "badass" characters, but at the same time I don't know if the humor/comedic bits would be a turn off or not.

I believe that Grave is referring more to the tone of the character rather than just their age alone. Toriko is a mostly lighthearted series, and while the character is certainly not childish from what I've read of the manga, he's also not the same breed of character as someone like Kenshin, who aside from being an adult character, also encompasses many adult themes, like regret and atonement.

Yes, this is true. Toriko is certainly not as complicated and rounded as a character like Kenshin, and in that way he's not as "adult" as that character even though he technically is one. Grave, if that's what you are referring to/looking for, you won't find it in Toriko. If you're looking for just a fun, action-packed adventure series that doesn't annoy you with "shonen-iness," then by all means you should give it a shot, though.

Even though it came out as I meant age alone, that was not my intent. Both these posts are spot on. While I don't mind seeing what these characters are going through and all, it's just that at this time and age (with my tolerance level being at an all time low), I really don't want to see what characters are going through (at least not so many series at the same time), whereas I'd much rather see how they're coping with the outcome of they're choices and whatnot.

Toriko, being an adult and experienced professional gourmet hunter for several years, is well beyond the point of learning the ropes/maturing, so you won't be bothered by stuff of that nature. He does grow as a character, but not in the kind of overt, obvious ways Naruto or Ichigo does. Anyway, the real point of Toriko is just to have fun with it, and the story and characters are not "serious" in the same way other shonen manga are. It's more like Jojo level seriousness, where the biggest draw is the action and badassery of it all and not really the story itself (not saying Jojo doesn't have great story too, but c'mon, we all know what that it's over the top stylish action is what makes it so awesome).

Back on Kenshin related discussion, I just finished the Kyoto arc yesterday, and yes, I loved it, though I was wishing for the battle for Kyoto itself to have lasted longer than it did, rather than just having Kenshin and company challenge Shishio and the ten swords in a series of battles, but the battles were so good that I soon didn't mind.

Two minor things bugged me though, and they are minor because they have nothing significant to do with the plot, but still left me confused. First off is what the hell was the point of Iwanbo? You can take him out of the whole thing and it wouldn't have affected anything, since he basically just ran away from his fight with the Oniwabanshu after Kamatari and Henya were defeated. Watsuki's comments in the volume (I forget which one, specifically) make me believe that ten swords were maybe too many for Watsuki to write effectively, and Iwanbo was probably the biggest casualty of that fact. Again, it doesn't hurt/affect the plot or anything, but a wasted character always makes me scratch my head, so that's why I bring it up.

The bigger thing that bugged me is WHY DID SAITO ANNOUNCE HIS "SNEAK" ATTACK ON SHISHIO? I mean seriously, no one expected him to make it to Shishio, and everyone was preoccupied with the battle, so if he just stayed quiet he would have caught him more totally off guard than he ended up doing. That's like, basic sneak attaching 101, and Saito of all characters should have known better than to announce his presence like that. That just didn't make sense to me, but since that and Iwanbo are the only two real headscratchers I got from the arc, I can forgive it.

Overall I still loved it, though again I wish the final battles were organized a little less straightforwardly than they were, but I would call it one of my favorite story arcs, though how high is still up for debate (especially since the Golden Age arc from Berserk and the Balbadd arc from Magi have also shot themselves high up on there). I look forward to reading the remainder of the series, which, if I'm to understand, is the best parts of it, and once I get some stuff off of my backlog I'll try watching the Kyoto arc in the anime as well.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Iwanbo was a coward and Saito is cocky (but honorable) is about all I can say.

Shishio's men had all sorts of faults and were on the deep-end of many sinful natures all different from each other. It only stands to reason one would be a cowardly backstabber with no guts. Thankfully Watsuki didn't linger on that, because I always hate lingering on cowardly villains.

Saito changes a lot from how he was in the war, too. If anything, he becomes more honorable as the series goes along. Though he thinks he has no limits or concerns he actually does have a sense of justice and strays from cowardly moves. I don't think the Saito from series end is the same as the one we first meet in the Tokyo arc. But I don't want to spoil anything.

[LumRanmaYasha]

Iwanbo was a coward and Saito is cocky (but honorable) is about all I can say.

...Iwanbo had like no character set up other than he was stupid, though, so the whole cowardly thing wasn't really well done in that regard. It's not like he "backstabbed" anyone either, since he just left because even he could tell he was outnumbered and had no chance of victory. Really, the "character" was just kinda pointless, and you can remove him from the story, which is why I was wondering why he was even there in the first place.

And about Saito...I dunno, it seemed out of character for him to just announce he was there when he could have taken out Shishio totally off guard. I guess you can attribute it to honor or cockiness, but it seemed like an uncharacteristically dumb thing to do.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I didn't mean he was a backstabber, just that he was the type to have no honor. To be fair, most people who are like that don't have much of a character either.  But I don't think it would have mattered much if he fleshed him out or not.

[LumRanmaYasha]

I didn't mean he was a backstabber, just that he was the type to have no honor. To be fair, most people who are like that don't have much of a character either. 

Sir Crocodile would beg to differ. 

I get what you're saying, though. It's a trivial thing in the grand scheme of things, anyway.

[LumRanmaYasha]

Aaaaannddd I just finished reading volume 18.

...

Yeah, so I wasn't expecting that twist with Iwanbo. Minor issue, resolved! 

[gunswordfist]

It's so badass when Saito announces his attack in the anime. That's all I got to say about that.

Edit: Yeah, that twist shocked me. I have no clue why Usui didn't notice that...

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I had to resist the urge to address your Iwanbo comment, CX, to avoid spoilers.

As for Saito, he still DID catch Shishio by surprise. I read it more like he yelled out as he was ready to attack, and Shishio was clearly surprised by it. It's just that Saito had no clue that Shishio had apparently had a sneak attack pulled off on him before, by the government, with a direct blow to his forehead, which is what Saito was aiming for. So, if anything, it was more ridiculous that Shishio thought to permanently attach a metal plate to his head just in case someone tried the exact same thing again....but considering that he was actually right, maybe it's not so ridiculous.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Evil men do odd things.

Like graft guns to their hands just in case.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

BTW, CX,being that you're a big One Piece fan, I was wondering if you noticed the fun little Easter Egg in one scene relatively early on in the Revenge arc.

It may also help to know that before starting One Piece, Eichiro Oda worked as an assistant to Watsuki during the serialization of Rurouni Kenshin.

[LumRanmaYasha]

As for Saito, he still DID catch Shishio by surprise. I read it more like he yelled out as he was ready to attack, and Shishio was clearly surprised by it. It's just that Saito had no clue that Shishio had apparently had a sneak attack pulled off on him before, by the government, with a direct blow to his forehead, which is what Saito was aiming for. So, if anything, it was more ridiculous that Shishio thought to permanently attach a metal plate to his head just in case someone tried the exact same thing again....but considering that he was actually right, maybe it's not so ridiculous.

Yeah, it's true either way his attack on Shishio wouldn't have worked no matter how off guard he was, but it still seemed odd that Saito would yell out like that since it's still not a wise thing to do when you are enacting a sneak attack. Either way, though, the result would have been the same, so Watsuki writing the scene the way he did was perfectly fine the way it is, and I'm just nitpicking based on personal opinion. 

BTW, CX,being that your a big One Piece fn, I was wondering if you'll notice the fun little Easter Egg in one scene relatively early on in the Revenge arc.

It may also help to know that before starting One Piece, Eichiro Oda worked as assistant to Watsuki during the serialization of Rurouni Kenshin.

Yeppers, I saw that! Makes me wonder if Oda had gotten his first ideas for One Piece early on in his assistant days.

I'm now finally at the "Remembrance" arc. Since I've heard everyone say that this is the best arc of the series, I can't wait to finally read it, and then finally watch the Trust and Betrayal OVA as well.