Currently Running Manga Discussion

[Spark Of Spirit]

I don't know if Japanese manga fans are as savvy as comic fans are here. If someone ripped off Days Of Future Past for instance, they would be caught immediately.

Hell, Bakuman just had an arc about THIS VERY IDEA. Which wouldn't surprise me if it is what has lead to Bleach plummeting in the rankings and might have even inspired some of the parts from Bakuman's previous arc.

I'm not sure if Japan has forgotten about YYH, though. I'm sure that's a big part of the reason Togashi got so many breaks on Hunter X Hunter. Toriyama probably would have gotten the same treatment if he still wanted to make manga.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Well, Yu Yu Hakusho was a pretty big manga for most of its run (it consistently held the #3 spot in overall rankings from around the time of its Dark Tournament arc until the end of its run). However, its not like it was close to topping something like Dragon Ball in popularity, so I still kind of find it funny that Togashi, after only doing one successful long-running shonen manga (which, by shonen standards isn't even that long), gets this kind of treatment with HXH (although, HXH as a manga was popular enough to the point that it could conceivably get this treatment since enough readers want to see it continue, even if they have to wait forever for a new chapter to come out (I believe while it ran before Togashi became a lazy fuck and took his first big hiatus, it was ranked at #2 behind One Piece in terms of popularity).

In fact, here are the 2-parts of the video documenting the top 3 manga in WSJ each 6 months since the late 1960's:

Part 1
Part 2

The stuff with YYH and past that is in part 2. I also admittedly chuckled when I saw how the rankings went as soon as One Piece started running. With Dragon Ball, it at least took it a little while to get started up and then make it consistently at the #1 spot, but with One Piece....well, its just pretty hilarious how quickly it managed to catch on with readers and how insanely popular it became.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Speaking of rip offs, I know Flame Of Recca used to be called a YYH rip off, in fact it was a lot like YYH in the early chapters before finding its own identity, but even that manga never lifted anything wholesale from Togashi and went of into its own style. What Bleach is doing is very much an attempt to be like Togashi, though I don't really know why. It might be because its a lot harder to notice the similarities unlike if he tried to copy One Piece or Naruto.

I'm still wondering how Fairy Tail is still going considering its just a generic shonen that ripped off One Piece's art completely.

To be honest, until One Piece, Naruto (which is sooner than later), and Bleach end we probably won't see much of value compete in the rankings since they pretty much soak up all the battle votes. Luckily it has lead Jump to put in more original ideas like Bakuman and Enigma slip in since they don't end up stealing votes and instead find their own audiences.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Speaking of rip offs, I know Flame Of Recca used to be called a YYH rip off, in fact it was a lot like YYH in the early chapters before finding its own identity, but even that manga never lifted anything wholesale from Togashi and went of into its own style. What Bleach is doing is very much an attempt to be like Togashi, though I don't really know why. It might be because its a lot harder to notice the similarities unlike if he tried to copy One Piece or Naruto.

To be honest, I don't mind an author necessarily "ripping off" a good story idea as long as he does his own thing with it and in his own style, and also adds plenty of substance to it and makes it interesting. There are many cases of famous writers having done such all throughout history (hell, The Aneid is a blatant rip-off of the famous epics of Homer, The Odyssey and The Iliad, as well as Apollonius's Argonautica, to a lesser extent, but its still considered a classic of its time because Vergil was considered a genius as a writer and purposely took those old poems to tell his own, arguably superior version of them). The problem with Bleach, though, is that Tite Kubo is not Vergil....or what I mean, is that he's not considered a genius, and that's because he isn't one. That isn't inherently a problem as long as he can come up with good ideas through planning, but he doesn't do that either. That's why his work comes off so offensively when it rips off YYH or any other shonen series.

I'm still wondering how Fairy Tail is still going considering its just a generic shonen that ripped off One Piece's art completely.

Eh, with artwork its a bit more complicated than that. It took obvious influence from the quirky nature of One Piece's artwork style, and while I haven't read the Fairy Tail myself, its pretty impossible to actually rip-off One Piece's art-style considering that it has changed drastically over the years (and inevitably the artwork of an author will start showing differences with a series that runs as long as this one does). That is to say, its still as quirky as ever (actually at times its wackier than before), but it also shows clear differences in terms of character designs and backgrounds. To be honest I prefer Oda's earlier character designs a bit, but then again some characters end up looking better while others kind of look uglier from the artwork transition, but overall that's just preference. In terms of backgrounds, though. Oda, or whoever his assistant is that handles backgrounds if that's the case, has clearly improved the artwork on that aspect of the manga tenfold from what it used to be (and it wasn't bad to begin with, so that's saying quite a lot).

Speaking of artwork, I think one of the interesting things about Oda's artwork is that the guy pays a shit-load of attention to detail, the point that its actually rewarding for readers if they pay attention to the details he puts in his art. Certain seemingly minor little things that he puts into a background or even showing on a character or right next to them or something like that can actually be a clue that comes back into play and is referenced back to several hundred chapters later.

To be honest, until One Piece, Naruto (which is sooner than later), and Bleach end we probably won't see much of value compete in the rankings since they pretty much soak up all the battle votes. Luckily it has lead Jump to put in more original ideas like Bakuman and Enigma slip in since they don't end up stealing votes and instead find their own audiences.

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Bleach has been plummeting in rankings lately.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Bleach frequently rates in the middle with similar generic material like Hitman Reborn. In fact, material like Bakuman and Enigma (which frequently ranks dead center) do much better than them since while they are usually around the middle, they frequently shoot to the top of the list due to their unpredictable natures. This was the last official ranking released:

One Piece (Lead Color Page)
Bakuman
Naruto
Gintama
Beelzebub
Toriko (Color Page)
Sket Dance
Kochikame
Hq!! (One-Shot)(Color Page)
Meruhen Ouji Grim a.k.a Prince of Fairy Tale "Grim"
Magico (Color Page)
Sengoku Armors
Bleach
Inumaru Dashi
Enigma
Kateikyoushi Hitman Reborn!
Kuroko no Basket
Nurarihyon no Mago
Medaka Box
Dois Sol
Hokenshitsu no Shinigami

Color pages don't usually count in the rankings, but lets be honest... One Piece would still be #1.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

To be honest, chapters such as the most recent one that I read earlier today kind of make me feel that it actually deserves its ranking at the top. That said, to be fair, its not like I'm reading every other WSJ manga that's currently running, but aside from maybe Enigma, I doubt that any of them would change my mind (yes, while I love Bakuman, I do agree with it being ranked at #2, overall, which is still really good).

[Spark Of Spirit]

Other than Kuroko (which is actually a pretty good sports manga), Enigma, and Bakuman. Everything else is pretty much generic shonen material. One Piece is number 1 because it manages to be both original and appeal to mainstream audiences.

I guess its a lot like Crow and Detective Trap. Both are great, just one is a bit more accessible despite both being great examples of the genre.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

With One Piece its not even that its all that original. Its ideas that we have seen in other stories before. For example, in One Piece's current arc its basic theme is racism and the characters can obviously be seen as representations of historical figures (in this case the most popular comparison are that Otohime is like Martin Luther King Jr. and Fisher Tiger is like Malcolm X.), and in this regard other stories have done stuff like this before. Its just that presenting themes like this and doing it in One Piece's particular style of story-telling is not something that you typically would see a shonen series do. I do like the idea of each of the more recent One Piece arcs having clear themes to them. I much prefer it to having each arc just feel like the author is randomly pulling another fight or plot-twist out of their asses (like....Bleach....except in this case Kubo switched things up and pulled plot points and characters out of Togashi's ass instead, that dirty little whore of a man ).

[Spark Of Spirit]

I meant it's more original in its execution. Its pretty much standard shonen when you analyze it enough, but the way its done is what makes it so popular. 

Though most good authors/writers/artists plan their material out in order to give justice to the world they're presenting. Bad authors tend to throw things at the wall in order to try to scramble for votes. It's actually quite remarkable in Bakuman when Hattori tells Ashirogi off for turning in generic trash (the few times they did) when it seemed pretty on par with most of Jump's junk anyway. 

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

To me, the most appealing thing about Bakuman is that the author (obviously), and the characters he writes for seem so self-aware of how tiring generic shonen really are, while also understanding that its alright to have shonen with a ton of cliches as long as they are executed well (like with Nijima and Crow), but that its also not a bad idea to actually strive for something different rather than just trying to be like everyone else (which is what Detective Trap and PCP are all about, among other things).

[Spark Of Spirit]

It's all about execution and heart in the end. You can make the most original thing in the world, but if its made like crap, no one is going to care.

My problem is when something is so clearly lifted from something else, you can just tell from the way the creator does it that its forced to fit in a universe where it shouldn't. Either way, I hope Kubo gets a lot of shit for this arc, because he deserves to.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

You know, the announcement for the new RK anime has kind of got me thinking that it would be so awesome if Watsuki were to step up with a new series that could match the quality he put out back when he did RK. I don't care what anyone else says, but to me the fact that he did RK at all shows that he has talent. Looking at his other works, they aren't inherently bad, and each showed at least some potential, but it just didn't feel like he put his heart and passion into any of them like he did with RK. I'd REALLY love to see him actually come out with something that has as much of a soul as RK has as a series, if that makes any sense. I know deep down that he could probably do it if he really put his mind and focus into something like he did with that manga. I just feel that WSJ desperately needs that kind of talent in terms of its mainstream shonen series. Oda is a great mangaka, but one series isn't enough to keep WSJ's overall mainstream line-up from being shit, as a whole.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Watsuki knew EVERYTHING he was doing when he made RK. The problem is everything he's done since has failed to achieve that balance RK did. BR was incredibly undercooked and boring, almost like he was rushing it out to just get it out, and his newest one seems over-thought to the point of being too muddled. They both feel like his type of story, but they don't achieve the balance of RK or reach the heights of it either.

I hold out hope he can make another manga as good as RK, because I honestly don't believe in one hit wonders in creativity. I call it untapped potential.

By the way, I cringed in that one thread on TZ when a few posters said BR was his best manga.

RK is a masterpiece of the genre and is still remembered and talked about to this day, hell its getting a new anime. BR is just another shonen that falls in line with the rest of the dreck.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Eh, I agree that BR itself is ultimately generic shonen drek, but it still initially showed some signs of potential, for me. I think the problem is, as I said earlier, his heart clearly wasn't in his work at that point, and that's sort of what makes a shonen generic drek, and that's when you can tell that the author doesn't care that much about what they are writing and are just putting in ideas that they believe will make a series popular. We KNOW that Watsuki is a far better author than that, though. Know half-assed writer could come out with a series as brilliant as Rurouni Kenshin with such consistently good quality and call it beginner's luck. The thing is, Watsuki needs to really start giving a shit about his work, because as it stands, GW, BR, and Frankenstein all had fine enough set-ups and each initially showed some potential, but Watsuki was clearly content with just half-assing them.

In this regard, I have to give just a tad bit more credit to Togashi. I know that you don't like HXH, Desensitized, and I myself am royally pissed at Togashi for being a lazy jerk, but that doesn't go hand-in-hand with not putting his passion into his work when he actually bothers to sit down and write it, and even you can't deny that Hunter X Hunter clearly has some heart put into it. I think the best characters were really well thought out by Togashi, and while HXH does have its share of bland characters, its only when Togashi is purposely only introducing them as minor characters to service the plot and move it forward, which while not something that's preferable (but, come on, he's a great writer but he's no Urasawa), is still acceptable enough for me since all of the main characters are really interesting and I actually find myself caring about them.

Also, this is kind of off-topic, but more anime adaptations of shonen manga need to actually stop being TOO faithful (yes, I didn't mistype that, I mean what I said). As someone who reads manga and watches their adaptations (at least I used to do that a lot), I want to see it done in a way that still interests me even if I know what's going to happen. I don't like seeing the same exact story copy and pasted panel for panel and word for word (except for Monster, but there is literally no way you could have made that any better as it was as close to perfect as you can get as it was, in the manga), as that gets pretty boring to watch. I'll even give props to Death Note, even though they over-dramatized so many scenes, if only because I was still actually interested to watch the anime just to see how certain scenes were executed, and in that regard it still always managed to remain entertaining for me if nothing else. The anime adaptations for both Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter X Hunter (yeah, both are Togashi's manga, go figure ) are EXCELLENT examples of anime that are faithful enough to their source material while changing around and adding in plenty of scenes to make already great works even better. In this regard, I especially have to give some props to the director of Hunter X Hunter for really going all-out with its production, from its intense action scenes that make you feel like they were intensely choreographed before remembering that its just an animated series, to the extremely well-put together filler content akin to how YYH had it done, yet it never felt like real filler in the least. We need more anime adaptations like that, IMO.

[Spark Of Spirit]

I thought Bakuman's additions to the manga source were pretty good and had the anime not been transformed to be boring in every way they could think of, I would have considered it a contender for topping the manga.

As it stands to me, unless you're going to add on to the story in ways that improve the original manga, just don't try. Filler arcs and episodes are one thing, but shit like what Naruto and Bleach did added NOTHING to the series since everything that happens in said filler adds nothing to the long run of the show. If you're going to adapt, either do it or stick to the source, don't half ass it.

Or steal from other authors.