The Legend of Zelda Series

[talonmalon333]

I was actually writing that post of mine before you posted your response to Desen, but you had already made that post by the time I posted my response up so I hadn't read your post yet.

It may be somewhat of an exaggeration, but I have noticed that pattern among the fan base as well, though to be fair I'm considerably more distant from the core Zelda fan base than you are so you probably know better in that regard.

As for me, I'm way behind on the Zelda games, anyways, and I really need to get around to playing Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword one of these days. I also want to try Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. I know that neither of those games are liked by anyone on this particular board, but they have gotten generally positive reception and I find that I can disagree with you guys about the games that I like in at least a few instances, anyways, so I still feel compelled to try both of those titles, especially since I really enjoyed The Wind Waker's story and want to see the continuation of it.

No worries. The 2-sentence version of that post probably got the point across better than my ramblings, anyway.

I do imagine there are indeed some people who switch their opinions when new games come out. But like you mentioned in your above post, that goes beyond Zelda and could be said about other franchises as well.

As for those games you mentioned, I agree and highly recommend them. I'm not sure what your console plans are, but I imagine the Wii is getting lower and lower in price (I'm actually seeing it run for as low as $70 range on Amazon). Twilight Princess is one of my favorite games ever (I think Avaitor was a fan as well). And though my earlier post might lead anyone to think otherwise, I really did like Skyward Sword as a whole. Glad you're interested in the DS games, too. Phantom Hourglass has some repetition that I imagine you'll likely agree with when you get to play it, but as a stand alone game it's still quite good. I was actually a fan of Spirit Tracks. Sure, it might not be as good as most of the other games in the series, but it was still very good and had some surprisingly funny moments. It also fixed a lot of issues from Phantom Hourglass, like replacing the repetitive parts with something similar but awesome. Oh, and the music is simply awesome, such as the main theme (which was used in promotion for the game, so posting it here isn't much of a spoiler). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W_bFLwB0WY

[Spark Of Spirit]

I still remember the Majora's Mask reaction. It was pretty vicious at the time. Much the same as Wind Waker's reveal.

Honestly, I just want a classic top down Zelda on the 3DS and a Zelda closer to Majora's Mask or Wind Waker on the U. I want them to step away from the ALTTP/OOT style and the linear ideas of SS and try something new again for the U.

[talonmalon333]

I still remember the Majora's Mask reaction. It was pretty vicious at the time. Much the same as Wind Waker's reveal.

Honestly, I just want a classic top down Zelda on the 3DS and a Zelda closer to Majora's Mask or Wind Waker on the U. I want them to step away from the ALTTP/OOT style and the linear ideas of SS and try something new again for the U.

I think something I really want now is a good world, with plenty of content and depth. That might be why I kind of think a western developer or something would be a benefit, and is why I am in support of a Retro Studios Zelda. Even if it's just a collaboration with them, I truly believe it could benefit the series. That, and they need to change up the gameplay to get out of this fetchquest-dungeon-fetchquest pattern that they've fallen into.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

But every Zelda game is like that. Majora's Mask has plenty of fetch-quests, albeit with a twist on it pertaining to the game's 3-day gimmick, and the 2D Zelda games aren't the least bit shy of them either. I usually end up having to get some item (or rather "fetch" it, if you will), in order to progress to another part of the game, and so on and so forth. That's just part of the standard Zelda formula, really, but I honestly don't mind it as long as the adventure elements along the way are fun to play through. For me, a great Zelda experience isn't determined by the goal of what you are doing but rather how much fun you have actually doing it, as it pretty much is for all games, really.

Also, the Ocarina of Time style is great. Its popular for a reason and I don't want to see it go away just because its the dominant style. And for the record, aside from having sailing in it and having a cartoony art-style, The Wind Waker wasn't really that much different from the regular Zelda formula (which is fine with me as I love the game the way it is). Majora's Mask is really the only one you can argue to have a gimmick that really ends up changing the core gameplay formula of the game, but even then it still feels very much like a Zelda game, but just with more experimentation, which I'm also fine with.

My gripe with MM, though, and the reason I don't love it quite as much as you guys do (I do like it, I just have issues with it), is how the gimmick is terrific on paper, but can be quite annoying for me in execution. I love how the whole time system works in terms of having different events happen on different days which effects whether you can access certain areas or not, and how you can travel back in time and such to effect certain events that happen on later days. The problem I've always had is how the game handles the system. I honestly would have rather it given you manual control over the time and let you choose to progress to a later point in time in the game at your own will. Yeah, that's kind of not realistic but it is a game and the point is to have fun, and that mechanic wouldn't break the game as much as it would just make it more convenient to play. You see, I HATE having games force you to stay on a strictly timed schedule. I like to take my time at certain areas, and especially in dungeons its really grating to know that I can't just do things at my own pace all the time. I know a lot of people don't have problems getting dungeons completed in time in MM, but for me I can easily get stuck on certain puzzles in each dungeon, and it puts me on the edge because I know that every second I waste is dwindling the time I have left to complete the dungeon before the end of the 3 days (and yes, I always have the time slowed down, but it still only takes 10 minutes for a day to end and night to come on, and that goes by pretty quickly for me). Of course, you could always save your progress, but that brings me to my other problem. I hate the save system in this game. I hate having to go back in time to save your progress and losing all of your loose items in the process. I just find that to be a pretty annoying mechanic, honestly. Sure, there are the owl statues, but those can only ever be used once at a time, so if you were to start up a game after saving there you'd effectively lose that save until you saved again regularly.

Anyways, while that IS honestly a big problem for me, personally, I still do like the game on the whole. I just can't personally agree that its better than Ocarina of Time, which I still think is a brilliant game, personally.

[talonmalon333]

But every Zelda game is like that. Majora's Mask has plenty of fetch-quests, albeit with a twist on it pertaining to the game's 3-day gimmick, and the 2D Zelda games aren't the least bit shy of them either. I usually end up having to get some item (or rather "fetch" it, if you will), in order to progress to another part of the game, and so on and so forth. That's just part of the standard Zelda formula, really, but I honestly don't mind it as long as the adventure elements along the way are fun to play through. For me, a great Zelda experience isn't determined by the goal of what you are doing but rather how much fun you have actually doing it, as it pretty much is for all games, really.

I can't say much since you haven't played it yet, but I personally think they laid it on a little thick in Skyward Sword. You're right that the experience isn't determined by the goal of what you're doing. But I think Skyward Sword's fetchquests just became busy work, like you're about to do something really awesome but then the game tells you to go back to some random place to get an item before coming back and making progress, and it just feels like they are padding out the game's length. I didn't mind the Triforce hunt in Wind Waker, or the wolf segments in Twilight Princess (which you've probably heard a little about, and maybe why people found them boring), but Skyward Sword went a little too far.

Also, the Ocarina of Time style is great. Its popular for a reason and I don't want to see it go away just because its the dominant style. And for the record, aside from having sailing in it and having a cartoony art-style, The Wind Waker wasn't really that much different from the regular Zelda formula (which is fine with me as I love the game the way it is). Majora's Mask is really the only one you can argue to have a gimmick that really ends up changing the core gameplay formula of the game, but even then it still feels very much like a Zelda game, but just with more experimentation, which I'm also fine with.

My gripe with MM, though, and the reason I don't love it quite as much as you guys do (I do like it, I just have issues with it), is how the gimmick is terrific on paper, but can be quite annoying for me in execution. I love how the whole time system works in terms of having different events happen on different days which effects whether you can access certain areas or not, and how you can travel back in time and such to effect certain events that happen on later days. The problem I've always had is how the game handles the system. I honestly would have rather it given you manual control over the time and let you choose to progress to a later point in time in the game at your own will. Yeah, that's kind of not realistic but it is a game and the point is to have fun, and that mechanic wouldn't break the game as much as it would just make it more convenient to play. You see, I HATE having games force you to stay on a strictly timed schedule. I like to take my time at certain areas, and especially in dungeons its really grating to know that I can't just do things at my own pace all the time. I know a lot of people don't have problems getting dungeons completed in time in MM, but for me I can easily get stuck on certain puzzles in each dungeon, and it puts me on the edge because I know that every second I waste is dwindling the time I have left to complete the dungeon before the end of the 3 days (and yes, I always have the time slowed down, but it still only takes 10 minutes for a day to end and night to come on, and that goes by pretty quickly for me). Of course, you could always save your progress, but that brings me to my other problem. I hate the save system in this game. I hate having to go back in time to save your progress and losing all of your loose items in the process. I just find that to be a pretty annoying mechanic, honestly. Sure, there are the owl statues, but those can only ever be used once at a time, so if you were to start up a game after saving there you'd effectively lose that save until you saved again regularly.

Anyways, while that IS honestly a big problem for me, personally, I still do like the game on the whole. I just can't personally agree that its better than Ocarina of Time, which I still think is a brilliant game, personally.

I understand your points. I think at least once for each dungeon in the game, I had taken all 3 days to reach the end of them (and in some of those cases, I wasn't even successful, and had to restart time and do it all over again). I mostly like Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask about equal (in fact I remember listing all the Zelda games from worst to best on this site a few months ago, and I think I put Ocarina at #2 and Majora at #1).

Another thing, hearing your issue with Majora's Mask, I think you'll also have an issue with one of the central parts of Phantom Hourglass. But I still recommend that game if you get the chance to play it.

[talonmalon333]

Also, I know everyone will disagree, but I'd like to mention I kinda think that...

Spirit Tracks > Minish Cap

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

That reminds me that I still have to get back to Minish Cap one of these days, as its a game that I actually have the means to play legally.

[talonmalon333]

That reminds me that I still have to get back to Minish Cap one of these days, as its a game that I actually have the means to play legally.

For some reason, I thought everyone here played Minish Cap. I was actually slightly late on getting to it.

As for ST, I might like it a bit more cause it has a whole lot of dungeons and good puzzles.

[Avaitor]

I didn't get to play Minish Cup. I wanted to, but just never happened.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Here's what Aonuma said about what they were thinking over for the next Zelda:



I do wonder what these will lead to for the next game.

[Nel_Annette]

So why are they bringing Wind Waker to Wii U? 10 year anniversary? Purdyer graphics? New content?

[Spark Of Spirit]

Apparently they were fooling around with seeing how the old Zelda games looked in HD and thought Wind Waker looked so good in HD they wanted to remake it.

What else they've put in the game remains to be seen as this was just the announcement.

[Nel_Annette]

Well, it will look amazing, that's for sure.

[Nel_Annette]

So, uh, yeah, got Hyrule Historia in the mail today. Book is gorgeous. First section is for Skyward Sword (I didn't like the game, but all the concept art and explanations is interesting nonetheless, i.e. Zelda's harp ), second section is the explanation of the timeline, third is concept art for all the games so far (Ganondorf actually had an illustration for the Oracle games, but as he only appeared as Ganon in it they never got to use it. Looks interesting, he's really slim in that artist's style), and last is a promo manga for Skyward Sword I think. Funny thing is, it appears to focus on

Spoiler

a Link predating the SS Link, the one who first fought for Hylia and sealed demise. He has a red cape and it looks badass

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Also, the typical write-ups from Miyamoto and the other guy (Iizuka? Look, I'm tired.)

Point is, it's a great book. I can't seem to find a mention of the CD-i games though.  (Though it even includes a short paragraph on BS The Legend Of Zelda.)

[talonmalon333]

Funny thing is, it appears to focus on

Spoiler

a Link predating the SS Link, the one who first fought for Hylia and sealed demise. He has a red cape and it looks badass

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Spoiler

Shouldn't that refer to SS Link himself?

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