Metal Gear

[Foggle]

You're right that they couldn't do any of the first-person parts on an MSX, but I do think the controller port thing may have been possible (I don't know if the MSX supported multiple players )... not the vibration part of it, though, which was amazing. They also couldn't have done the torture mini-game nearly as well without vibration. I was speaking more in terms of core level design, I guess.

MGS1 has an amazing soundtrack, which is obviously better than a few catchy bleep bloops.

The first two games were definitely heavy on backtracking, but I still think Zanzibar Land was twice the size of Shadow Moses. MG2 is the most impressive 8-bit game I've ever played for a reason. The originals both felt a lot larger to me, but I guess you'd have to ask a level designer or hardcore fan to know for sure.

In that sense, would you say MGS2 was a disappointment considering that it was, well, stupid even in the early 2000s?

The story? Definitely. The stealth gameplay was up there with the other greats of the time, though.

[Foggle]

Out of curiosity, I looked up maps of the original three Metal Gear games:

Outer Heaven
Zanzibar Land
Shadow Moses

I'd say it does look like there's a much larger gameplay area in the 8-bit games, but a lot more going on architecturally in MGS1.

[talonmalon333]

It's kind of hard to judge which games have more level design based on those maps, though.

Also, I was wondering. Exactly what is the difference between the MSX and NES version of Metal Gear?

[gunswordfist]

I've been wondering the same!

[Foggle]

It's kind of hard to judge which games have more level design based on those maps, though.

If the games are fresh in your mind, they make a lot more sense, I'd say. Maybe check them out again if you ever replay all three in sequence.

Also, I was wondering. Exactly what is the difference between the MSX and NES version of Metal Gear?

A lot. The NES version is not actually a port, but a subpar remake. It adds new areas and retools old ones while almost breaking the core mechanics, effectively ruining around 80% of the game. Stealth is often impossible, the new areas are awful, there's a sizable amount of unfair bullshit added in, the graphics and music are worse, and you don't even fight Metal Gear at the end! For added perspective, Kojima reportedly likes Snake's Revenge more than MG1 NES.

If you've only played that version, I can certainly see why you think far less of the game than I do.

[talonmalon333]

A lot. The NES version is not actually a port, but a subpar remake. It adds new areas and retools old ones while almost breaking the core mechanics, effectively ruining around 80% of the game. Stealth is often impossible, the new areas are awful, there's a sizable amount of unfair bullshit added in, the graphics and music are worse, and you don't even fight Metal Gear at the end!

I do know that the NES version apparently starts out in a forest outside Outer Heaven, and that Snake parachutes in with a few other people that are apparently never seen again. Kojima made stealth a thing in games, but I guess he was the only one who saw the promise in it back then, if the people who did the NES version really downgraded the stealth.

I guess the NES has worse sound and graphical capabilities than the MSX.

If you've only played that version, I can certainly see why you think far less of the game than I do.

I've never played the NES version. But nice try there.

[Foggle]

It's not so much that they downgraded the stealth; it still works the same way as in the MSX version. They just positioned the enemies poorly, making stealth often impossible.

[talonmalon333]

Then they are just low tier developers who did a sloppy job.

[talonmalon333]

We once talked about the Metal Gear series getting ported to Steam, but thinking about it, can MGS1 really port over all of that Psychomantis material?

[Foggle]

Somewhat. PC games can still support vibration, and they could just make the Castlevania comment be based on Lords of Shadow saves instead of Symphony of the Night saves. I'm not sure how they'd do the controller port thing, though. (There is already a PC port of MGS1, but I have no idea how they handled Psycho Mantis in that version.)

[talonmalon333]

Somewhat. PC games can still support vibration, and they could just make the Castlevania comment be based on Lords of Shadow saves instead of Symphony of the Night saves. I'm not sure how they'd do the controller port thing, though. (There is already a PC port of MGS1, but I have no idea how they handled Psycho Mantis in that version.)

According to Wikipedia, they scrapped all of the cool, unique parts from the Psychomantis fight in the PC port.

[Foggle]

I read that if you play the PC version with a controller, you have to use the keyboard while fighting Psycho Mantis so he can't read your mind.

[Foggle]

Konami has announced Metal Gear Solid 5 DLC.

It's horse armor.

Not even joking.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Well, at least it's not actual useful weapons and armor that should've been unlockable in the game itself. They did that with MGRR, which is fucking abysmal. Horse armor is easier to ignore. Leave it to the idiots to waste money on that crap.

[gunswordfist]

Meh, Oblivion had horse armor DLC too. That's the kind of DLC I like to see; useful but not necessary. I'd buy it myself if I thought it was cool enough.