Yoshihiro Togashi

Started by Dr. Ensatsu-ken, February 05, 2011, 11:35:44 PM

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Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Quote from: Cartoon X on June 02, 2013, 10:21:45 PM
Um... I think you meant to say Naoko Takeuchi. Naoki Urasawa is the creator of Monster and 20th Century Boys...and a dude.

Yes, yes, I'm well aware of that. Its called a typo. You guys act like everyone's perfect. :oo:

QuoteIn any case, yeah. Togashi ending Yu Yu Hakusho in the way that he did was a selfish but still understandable "fuck you" to Shueshia, but what he's been doing with Hunter X Hunter and it's hiatus' is almost downright despicable since he's abusing his privileges and influence in order to simply be lazy and work whenever he feels like, which is disrespectful to a lot of hard-working mangaka who struggle and work hard to be successful and earn a living, and to his loyal fans who have to put up with his fancies. Still a great writer and mangaka, but it's hard to defend what he's doing with Hunter X Hunter when it's just such a selfish thing to do.

I agree. Though, I did personally find HXH on the whole to be more compelling than Desensitized did, so on that end the hiatuses really ticked me off more. That is until the most recent one, in which I really felt like the series could have ended, and I'm just going to pretend that it did until the day Togashi decides to resume the series yet again so that he can piss me off.

gunswordfist

"his wife Naoko Takeuchi is the creator of Sailor Moon,"

:SHOCK:
"Ryu is like the Hank Hill of Street Fighter." -BB_Hoody


Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Quote from: gunswordfist on August 19, 2013, 12:45:30 AM
"his wife Naoko Takeuchi is the creator of Sailor Moon,"

:SHOCK:

Am I to understand that you only JUST realized that basic fact? :srs:

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

10. Good writing that isn't self-indulgent shit....most of the time, anyways

I know, it seems obvious, but you'd be shocked how hard that is to come by, these days.

9. Non-generic-ness

Once again, it's so simple, yet so welcome.

8. Story Time! Yay! :joy:

Togashi's series' actually have plots! And finely weaved together, intricate plots that make sense and aren't too convoluted. It's absolutely mind-boggling stuff, you know. I mean, just the sheer idea that your story should actually go somewhere and have a point to it. I didn't know that shounen mangaka could do that. Who would've thunk it? :SHOCK:

7. Characters

Some shounen mangaka write archetypes, which are "roles" in a specific kind of story formula that are being disguised as what some people think are characters. Togashi writes characters that disguise themselves as archetypes, only to put the archetype itself to shame by showing you just how much he can expand on any given character's role and influence in a story. Case in point: Killua from Hunter X Hunter; he's the "bad boy" of the group, and a former assassin, so naturally you'd expect him to be the "dark-haired" silent character of this series that seems to hate everyone who's not him and look down on others until the main character teaches him the meaning of friendship. Instead, he's kid with bright hair and the most convincingly happy yet sadistic smile you've ever seen. He actually actively welcomes the idea of having friends and downright resents his family forcing him to be an assassin. He doesn't care too much about the morality of killing, but rather just doesn't want to have his destiny as a killer chosen for him. He is actually quite talkative and can be warm and welcoming to allies, but his background ensures that he is never too trusting of anyone, and keeps him always cautious and thinking on his feet. As you can tell, he is introduced as a character that would fit into one archetype, yet his characteristics are so dynamic that you can't label him as any one single archetype. That's what a character is supposed to be, his own individual, rather than the popular idea of what a certain type of individual should be.

6. Characters that just happen to be villains

Most villains in shounen series are just that: the villains. In Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter X Hunter, most of the villains in those series are really just written as characters, the same as any of the protagonists in those manga. They have their own personalities, and their own motivations and back-stories that usually make perfect sense as to why they became the types of individuals that they are. They just happen to be in direct opposition to the main characters of their respective series, and thus are classified as villains because of that. Sensui became an antagonist because he was too naive for his own good and couldn't handle the truth about humanity not being full of pure-hearted goody-goodies like himself when he actually had cold hard evidence slapped right in his face on an unfortunate confrontation with some of the worst human beings that the world had to offer, so he had a mental breakdown and convinced himself that humanity was his true enemy in order to cope with his shattered psyche in preserving his own image as a figure of justice. In Hunter X Hunter, the Genei Ryodan became who they were because they were born as unwanted children in a literal wasteland and not even officially recorded into existence, so they did the natural thing and banded together with one another and decided to look out for each other as a true family, while essentially having a "fuck you too" kind of attitude toward the rest of the world, and showing no regard or remorse for any outsiders to their group. Compare that to something like, oh, say....Yami, from HSDK. That's a group of martial artists that believe it is morally right to kill people. My question(s) is (are): Why? What's your philosophy on killing? Do you just like to kill, or do you only condone killing when it's necessary? Why do you necessarily have to look down on fellow martial artists who don't like to kill? Why don't you only practice killing on each other instead of just killing whoever in order to piss everyone off? Why do people even support you guys when 90% of you guys are just 1-dimensional ass-holes who's only defining characteristic is that you all kill people and don't feel bad about it? Yeah, none of those questions are even proposed in that series, let alone actually answered. Those villains just exist in the series for the sake of being people to get beat up eventually. They aren't really characters, but once again just archetypes pretending to be characters.

5. ZOMG! Characters....with brains!

Zombies would love characters from Yoshihiro Togashi's series. They have big, ripe, juicy brains right for the picking. I mean, they must, because they are all thinking all of the time. They ponder their emotions, yet in many cases try to think of ways out of tough situations and ordeals, even thinking of how to separate their emotions from rational thought and logic. They don't always just rush into a situation like a typical hot-head and hope for the best result, and when they do, they usually get fucked up pretty badly for it.

4. ZOMG! Characters that just happen to be villains....with brains!

The villains are even smarter, and usually because they have to be, as Togashi gives them their own set of disadvantages in many cases. Like, The Seven Psychics were significantly weaker than Yusuke and most of his friends, so they HAD to rely on dividing them up and outwitting them to even hope to stand a chance against them. And most villains in HXH, with the exception of the Chimera Ants, had their own set of weaknesses to be weary of.

3. Would you like a side of strategy with your manly shounen fight, sir?

Yes, other shounen mangaka have tried to incorporate strategy into their battles. This actually takes a lot of talent to pull off correctly, though. If you get too exposition-heavy, it's boring, and if you're like the manga for Naruto, you can't even tell (or care about) what's going on in a battle more than half of the time. Togashi's battles have strategies that make sense given the abilities that you already know the characters have, and they actually make the fights more interesting, and something which you actually look forward to.

2. What, even if I planned it, shit can still go wrong?

You know what I hate in villains from any kind of series? "All according to plan....hahahaha....." Fuck that shit! That was my biggest problem with The Light from Young Justice. I just can't stand the kind of villain that apparently thought of every possibility and is never gotten the better of until he or she or they are proven wrong by a last-ditch effort at the very end. Every victory they achieve was expected, and every defeat they suffer wasn't really a defeat, but a carefully planned step of their even grander plan that only let's the heroes think that they've won to get them to partake in some other convoluted set of plans. I think that's boring, honestly. You know that I love: The heroes and villains constantly trying to outwit one another, all the while growing increasingly more desperate until they end up in a situation where either one barely wins, or they both inadvertently screw each other over in ways that they didn't entirely intend, and in the end nobody is left completely happy (the York New City arc from HXH, in a nutshell, really). Because, that's just a little bit closer to real life. Plans can fail and crumble before your eyes, and what really tests how smart a character can be lies in how well they can improvise when things actually don't go according to expectations. Togashi is a master or writing those sorts of scenarios, IMO.

1. "If it's interesting, people will read it" (-some guy from Bakuman said some quote like that)

A bit anticlimactic, but it's the most important thing that makes Togashi's manga so damn good. With just a few exceptions, he almost always keeps you hooked by just wanting to see how the plot will unfold and how the characters will develop with each new encounter thrown their way, and just how each of the ordeals he throws at them, big or small, will be resolved. It's rarely anything as cheap as a "will they or won't they" romance plot, or ever as simple as a "will this good guy beat this bad guy" kind of situation. There's always a lot more going on that just eats away at you until the very end of each of his story arcs (The pinnacle of this, for me, was in the Chapter Black arc of Yu Yu Hakusho). To me, that's the sign of a writer who is truly the master of his craft.

Anyways, I just made this list out of boredom, and some of my points are recycled (I tried to disguise it with some humor), but these are the legitimate reasons for why I believe that Togashi is the best shounen mangaka, despite his faults. Speaking of which....next time, I'll do a list of the top 5 things that (almost) make Togashi the worst shounen mangaka of all time. ;)

Spark Of Spirit

Almost everyone in Bakuman said that.  :D

But an adventure story has to be about every character going through a journey (not so much a location change) above all for it to work. Neither YYH or HxH have ever deviated from that idea from the first chapter except when he completely lost the plot in Three Kings and lost himself sometimes in Chimera Ant, which is probably why I consider parts of those his worst work. Characters learn, grow, change, and move, and that includes the villains. That's what makes them exciting to read, in my opinion.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Yeah, Togashi's ability to make his characters learn and grow from their experiences is truly remarkable. I mean, just compare Yusuke at the beginning of YYH to how he is at the end. He clearly isn't the same little punk that he used to be, yet the core of what makes his character "himself" is still never lost sight of. The same goes for the supporting characters of that show, as well as all o the main characters in HXH. It seems like such a small thing to some people, but to me it makes a world a difference between these shows just being like any other shounen, and instead being the true masterpieces of the genre like they really are, IMO.

Angus

Ok, I'm still in the backwoods. What Togashi series should I pick up after YYH?
"You don't have to eat the entire turd to know that it's not a crab cake." - Bean, Shadow of the Hegemon

LumRanmaYasha

Pretty much just Hunter X Hunter. I mean, yeah, there is also Level E that I'd recommend you check out, but that's a short series and also a comedy, and isn't much similar to Yu Yu Hakusho at all. Hunter X Hunter is like Yu Yu Hakusho in terms of Togashi's writing style for story arcs and characters, and also because, well, it's a battle manga for the shonen demographic like it as well. While Hunter X Hunter is much more inconsistent than Yu Yu Hakusho, it definitely is one of the smartest written battle shonen mangas as well, with the York New City and Chimera Ant arcs (baring bits from the first third of the latter) being some of the greatest arcs of all time for that genre. It's certainly a series I'd recommend reading if you enjoyed Yu Yu Hakusho.

You can either read the manga, which is about 30 volumes so far, all of which is available legally by Viz, or watch the 2011 anime, which is ongoing, and available to watch on Crunchyroll. Generally, I think the 1999 anime is better for the parts it adapts (up to York New), and while the dvds are hard to find nowadays (and the dub sucks), it's another, if a bit less easier, option to start on the series. Of course, you can always find ways to start and go through the series illegally, but I think it's much easier to take advantage of the legal options, myself.  ;)

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Pretty much everything Cartoon X said.

Angus

Thanks!  :thumbup: I got Netflix and the free version of Crunchyroll.
"You don't have to eat the entire turd to know that it's not a crab cake." - Bean, Shadow of the Hegemon

LumRanmaYasha

I thought I'd share this pretty interesting discussion about Hunter X Hunter. It's a good review from the Weekly Manga Recap guys that I think tackles some fair points on the strengths and flaws of the series..

I appreciate that this was a balanced review, with three different perspectives on the series; one a fan, one more in the middle, and one negative. Some criticisms I do agree with, but I disagree with a lot of Y Ruler Of Time's criticisms, though, especially concerning the way Togashi structures and ends his arcs (and of course his Leorio criticism isn't even legit especially since Rollo T and Special K pretty much explained why what he wanted ACTUALLY HAPPENS). And I seriously don't agree that how things ultimately end up tend to be "let-downs." Yes, the ending to arcs like York New might not be "satisfying," but they make more sense story and character-wise and I find it to be more realistic and sensical than if they had a bunch of one on one battles with the Phantom Troupe or something. I like that stuff and it's what makes the series stand out to me. It's smart and defiant on shonen series tropes and reader expectations, and more often than not I think that makes for a more refreshing and interesting series.

One criticism they made that I do agree with is how Togashi sets up things sometimes but never follows through with them, or how things that seem important end up being not (f.e. going over how to auction/haggle for stuff at the auction in YNC, Killua's fat brother's story in the York New arc, Leorio's friend in YNC deciding to become a hunter, Gyro). That's a bad habit of his that comes from the obvious fact he's just making things up as he goes and doesn't plan out anything, or changes direction when he gets bored with how things are. Most of the time it makes things more interesting because Togashi is great at building up stories, but some stuff like Gyro feels like a waste of time when it's not brought back in an immediate way, or if it never amounts to anything like Killua's fat brother's story in YNC.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

The thing about bargaining/haggling DOES come back. They use that same concept to escape from Nobunaga later on.

gunswordfist

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 18, 2011, 04:25:56 PM
The ending of the chapter was kind of weird, or rather the last image was kind of weird. I can't tell if it meant that Werefin's fate is already sealed (in that he's going to be a dead duck....errrr....wolf right at the start of the next chapter), or if he's in "deep-shit" zone right now with a slimmer of a chance to talk his way out of it. By the looks of it he can no longer talk his way out of his situation, and Meruem can already tell that he has turned traitor, and knowing Togashi's writing style he will mercilessly kill off characters like that, so I'm pretty sure that Werefin is already as good as dead. Still, I'm really anticipating the next chapter to see if that's really how things turn out, since this series is full of unpredictable twists and deviations from expected norms and conventions for this type of story-line. Its a true testament to Togashi's skill as a mangaka, even if his quality is very inconsistent these days.
This shows how unpredictable Togashi's writing can be. :)
"Ryu is like the Hank Hill of Street Fighter." -BB_Hoody


Spark Of Spirit

Quote from: gunswordfist on June 24, 2014, 08:39:36 PM
Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on August 18, 2011, 04:25:56 PM
The ending of the chapter was kind of weird, or rather the last image was kind of weird. I can't tell if it meant that Werefin's fate is already sealed (in that he's going to be a dead duck....errrr....wolf right at the start of the next chapter), or if he's in "deep-shit" zone right now with a slimmer of a chance to talk his way out of it. By the looks of it he can no longer talk his way out of his situation, and Meruem can already tell that he has turned traitor, and knowing Togashi's writing style he will mercilessly kill off characters like that, so I'm pretty sure that Werefin is already as good as dead. Still, I'm really anticipating the next chapter to see if that's really how things turn out, since this series is full of unpredictable twists and deviations from expected norms and conventions for this type of story-line. Its a true testament to Togashi's skill as a mangaka, even if his quality is very inconsistent these days.
This shows how unpredictable Togashi's writing can be. :)
The next chapter will be a time jump with Gon running a noodle-cart stand and explaining what the audience missed through poorly written dialogue.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

LumRanmaYasha

I just found out recently that Togashi was actually the editor for Kuroko no Basket.

It's interesting that he's also a Jump editor. Though, I wish he could have tried more to make Fujimaki write that final match with Rakuzan better.  :P