Yoshihiro Togashi

Started by Dr. Ensatsu-ken, February 05, 2011, 11:35:44 PM

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Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Actually, that explains a lot. You see, if it was early days Togashi, this manga would probably be a lot better, including the final battle, as he'd give Tadatoshi good advice for characterization and story-telling. Modern Togashi, however, is far too up his own ass with needless exposition and out-of-nowhere characterization, so with his influence, it's no wonder that the final arc felt so awkward in execution. Granted that, with his writing, I think that he could have definitely written a better and far more interesting villain than Akashi, but still, everything else bad about the manga does remind me of stuff that he does wrong in HXH, as well. That said, it was still a good manga, overall, so you could say that his influence had positive aspects, as well, but either way, it's Tadatoshi's story, not his, so the majority of the credit for both good and bad should really go to him, not Togashi.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Reading some more of the interview, it's nice to see both Fujimaki and Togashi paying respect to Slam Dunk. It's especially good to see Fujimaki acknowledge it as one of the best in the genre. Just for that I'll give whatever your next project is a shot.

LumRanmaYasha

#92
Well, that's not too surprising, considering Slam Dunk is one of the most popular manga ever. The only sports manga that was more popular and beats it in sales is Touch.

Reading on in the interview, It's interesting how Togashi intentionally made Gon a simple character to make the characters around him more interesting and help him develop the story more easily. Not sure if that was particularly necessary, since Yusuke was a fleshed-out character and YYH is a better series than HXH partly because of that, but Gon did become more interesting later on in Chimera Ant so this really isn't an issue anymore. One thing I like, though, is that his only belief as a manga is to be able "to kill off the protagonist anytime," by which he explains that he's interested in breaking any sense of security/expectations people have and not just play by the normal conventions of shonen manga. With that philosophy, it's really no wonder why both Yu Yu and HXH are so unique among battle-shonen, and why they are two of the best.

Side note: if Fujimaki makes his next manga a golfing manga like Togashi suggests he does, I will also make sure to keep up with it (unless it's bad, of course).

gunswordfist

I think Gon works well just like that. Gon's probably my least favorite important character in HXH but I think he fits best as the main character.
"Ryu is like the Hank Hill of Street Fighter." -BB_Hoody


Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Quote from: Cartoon X on September 03, 2014, 04:49:08 PMReading on in the interview, It's interesting how Togashi intentionally made Gon a simple character to make the characters around him more interesting and help him develop the story more easily.

I always suspected that he wrote Gon that way on purpose, so that doesn't surprise me. He always came off as relatively more simple and neutral  to me, in order to provide more contrast to the other characters. Normally that would be a bad thing, but I don't agree that It means he's boring (which is something that Desensitized might say). Togashi still goes into his character in great detail, and shows both the strengths and weaknesses of being the way that he is.

QuoteNot sure if that was particularly necessary, since Yusuke was a fleshed-out character and YYH is a better series than HXH partly because of that

Actually, while I totally enjoy Yusuke, I'd argue that he is also the simplest of the main 4 characters. I could easily go into detail about how Kurama, Hiei, and yes, even Kuwabara's are far more nuanced than he is, but I think what makes Yusuke interesting is that on his own, he's not a typical shounen protagonist at all. He's actually rather apathetic to doing what's "right," and doesn't care for doing things by any ideology. He's the rare hero that will sink to less than desirable methods if that's what it takes to get the job done, yet he still clearly understands morals and it's not like that doesn't bother him, as demonstrated with his fight with Doctor. Even so, he's still markedly more simple than the other characters in the manga and anime, including the villains.

QuoteOne thing I like, though, is that his only belief as a manga is to be able "to kill off the protagonist anytime," by which he explains that he's interested in breaking any sense of security/expectations people have and not just play by the normal conventions of shonen manga. With that philosophy, it's really no wonder why both Yu Yu and HXH are so unique among battle-shonen, and why they are two of the best.

Granted that, he has yet to deliver on it with HXH (and never did with YYH), but I certainly wouldn't put it past him to kill off Gon or any of the other main characters before the series is finally done, and seeing as how that won't likely happen in our lifetime, I still wouldn't be surprised to see it happen anyways a few hundred chapters (and presumably a few decades) down the line. :P

gunswordfist

That Hunter X Hunter 2032 anime is going to rock.
"Ryu is like the Hank Hill of Street Fighter." -BB_Hoody


LumRanmaYasha

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 05:04:20 PM

Granted that, he has yet to deliver on it with HXH (and never did with YYH), but I certainly wouldn't put it past him to kill off Gon or any of the other main characters before the series is finally done, and seeing as how that won't likely happen in our lifetime, I still wouldn't be surprised to see it happen anyways a few hundred chapters (and presumably a few decades) down the line. :P

Based on what he explained afterwards, I thought the implication of what he meant by that statement was not that he literally wants to kill off his protagonists or that he's planning to (though, he may very well do it sometime, who knows?), but that he likes to play with his audience's expectations and surprise them by not following traditional conventions. Which, of course, he does.  ;)

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Reading further on in the interview, Togashi said that he had absolutely no involvement in the YYH anime adaptation. And that explains why it's so much better than the manga. :D

He even admits that Kuwabara's VA understood the character better than he did, and influenced how he wrote the character afterward. That's a pretty balsy thing for him to say, even if done in a joking manner. For all the things you could call Togashi, it's at least refreshing to know that he isn't full of himself. He sounds very humble, going by the interview, at least.

LumRanmaYasha

From all the interviews I've read, I've found that most mangaka are very humble, actually. But yeah, it's certainly interesting that the YYH anime actually influenced the manga, in some way.

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Another interesting thing is from Togashi is that he believes that, even when the heroes win, they should also lose something in the process to contrast that win, so the audience never feels completely comfortable. That is something that he definitely applies in spades to both YYH and HXH.

Spark Of Spirit

It sure does explain a lot of his storytelling process, and also why Kuroko felt like it had a spark to it that felt genuine. Shame he couldn't reign in some of the manga's lesser qualities, but still, it was a good first effort.

Quote from: Dr. Ensatsu-ken on September 03, 2014, 05:26:10 PM
Another interesting thing is from Togashi is that he believes that, even when the heroes win, they should also lose something in the process to contrast that win, so the audience never feels completely comfortable. That is something that he definitely applies in spades to both YYH and HXH.
Unless we're talking the end of manga Three Kings.

Nobody wins there.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

Dr. Ensatsu-ken

Quote from: Spark Of Spirit on September 03, 2014, 06:19:45 PMIt sure does explain a lot of his storytelling process, and also why Kuroko felt like it had a spark to it that felt genuine. Shame he couldn't reign in some of the manga's lesser qualities, but still, it was a good first effort.

Just to be clear, Togashi didn't start out as Fujimaki's editor. According to the interview, it was someone else, and then the editing position changed hands to Togashi later on in the manga's run. Although, Fujimaki said that Togashi has been his editor for a while, now, so it's probably not stretching it to assume that Togashi was his editor for at least a hundred chapters or so.

Quotewe're talking the end of manga Three Kings.

Nobody wins there.

True but....you use that arc against Togashi way too much. :sweat:

I mean, I hate it in the manga as well, and I believe that Togashi even admitted it was bad in another interview I once read, saying that he ended the manga out of selfishness, but even so, I think you focus a bit too much on what he didn't do well compared to the plethora of stuff that he has gotten right over the years. This arc and just the first third if the Chimera Ant arc (and only select bits of that, really), are the only bad writing that he has ever done. The Saint Beast and GI arcs were mediocre, not bad. Everything else he has done ranges from good to amazing, IMO, including Level E.

gunswordfist

I disagree. Greed Island is bad and Saint Beasts is average. Greed Island had 4 new characters worth mentioning at most, 3 which are in Chairman's Election making this a moot point since 2 of the 3 could have just been introduced there (Bisky could have just been brought in during Chimera Ants)..which just leaves Razor..., ugly backgrounds, lame villains, too much expository (explaining the game), the training didn't amount to much and it had like 2 good action scenes. Not that the fights make a season but that would have at least helped. All in all, it did not help Gon find Ging at all, which is the only reason Gon went there. The second Ging was shown deciding to have Gon and a friend be teleported to Kite because he only wanted Gon to meet him made the arc almost completely useless. Chimera Ants indirectly lead Gon to Ging, of course and this time a bunch of new allies were left over.
"Ryu is like the Hank Hill of Street Fighter." -BB_Hoody


Spark Of Spirit

Quote from: gunswordfist on September 03, 2014, 07:00:39 PM
I disagree. Greed Island is bad and Saint Beasts is average. Greed Island had 4 new characters worth mentioning at most, 3 which are in Chairman's Election making this a moot point since 2 of the 3 could have just been introduced there (Bisky could have just been brought in during Chimera Ants)..which just leaves Razor..., ugly backgrounds, lame villains, too much expository (explaining the game), the training didn't amount to much and it had like 2 good action scenes. Not that the fights make a season but that would have at least helped. All in all, it did not help Gon find Ging at all, which is the only reason Gon went there. The second Ging was shown deciding to have Gon and a friend be teleported to Kite because he only wanted Gon to meet him made the arc almost completely useless. Chimera Ants indirectly lead Gon to Ging, of course and this time a bunch of new allies were left over.
Wow, I didn't think someone would agree with me on Greed Island. I mean, I like the ideas and concepts behind it, but as a story arc I just really didn't like it much at all. Then there's Chimera Ant with more training and you just wonder what he was thinking with Greed Island.
"The world will never starve for want of wonders, but for want of wonder." - G.K. Chesterton

gunswordfist

Must be that Dragon Quest addiction. :> I said I thought Greed Island was bad in the past but never expanded on it. Then again, watching both Chimera Ants and Chairman's Election makes me see how obsolete it is and it helped create half my points against it. Premise wise, Greed Island sounds like a great change of pace and adventure but it was executed all wrong. Another thing I forgot to mention (I think you said this?), they could have just got a call from Kite (or just found out that he needed help from the Hunter site) and skipped the whole thing. I wouldn't have minded at all if Togashi made Greed Island worthwhile but yeah...
"Ryu is like the Hank Hill of Street Fighter." -BB_Hoody