SUDA 51 and Grasshopper Manufacure

[Foggle]

No wonder Shadows of the Damned felt the "least Suda" of Suda's games.

From what I've read, it was originally supposed to be a psychological horror game heavily inspired by the works of Franz Kafka, but EA made them change it into a comedy shooter because they thought it wouldn't sell.

Looks like the joke's on them.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

To be fair, while it may not have been the horror game that Suda really wanted to make, I do still think that it turned out to be a legitimately funny game. Seriously, some of that dialogue is priceless.

[Foggle]

Yeah, Shadows of the Damned is both awesome and hilarious.

[Eddy]

Yeah, I do love Shadows of the Damned. Just not as much as Suda's other works. I'd love to see him try to make a psychological horror game one day, though.

While I'm at it, I think I'll go and rank my favorite to least favorite Suda games (that I've played).

1. Killer7
2. No More Heroes
3. Lollipop Chainsaw
4. No More Heroes 2
5. Shadows of the Damned

No More Heroes 2 is technically better than NMH1 but I think I found the first one's story and cast more memorable.

I still have to play Flower, Sun & Rain and I haven't played any of Suda's downloadable games. (I believe Black Knight Sword is NOT a Suda game, just a Grasshopper game?)

[Foggle]

Good list! Here's mine:

1. Killer7
2. No More Heroes 2
3. Fatal Frame 4
4. No More Heroes
5. Lollipop Chainsaw
6. Shadows of the Damned

Love them all though. Planning on playing some of their anime games and Sine Mora soon.

[Foggle]

I know I'm slow, but I only just now realized that Dr. Peace's song is actually about

Spoiler

how Jeane's life was destroyed when her dad raped her.

[close]

Jesus, Suda.

[Eddy]

So what's the verdict on Killer is Dead? Has anyone played it yet? I love Suda51 but the more I hear about this infamous "Gigolo Mode" the more I think playing it would make me feel like some kind of creep. Is it as bad as they say? I keep hearing it's practically a softcore hentai mini-game.

On the other hand, I hear it's totally optional.

[Spark Of Spirit]

There's been some discussion in the "Things That Bother You" thread.

Foggle appears to like it.

[Foggle]

You must have missed my posts in the other threads.

After playing Killer Is Dead for a couple hours, I can easily see why reviewers didn't like it. It has cartoon graphics, QTE-less combat that doesn't play itself, unconventional storytelling, a non-orchestral soundtrack, and - worst of all - a lives system. It's almost as bad as Duck Tales!

Really, though, fantastic game so far. The combat is simple but fast; a massive step up from NMH and LC. Imagine an old-school brawler in 3D with amazing boss fights. The Gigolo Missions are sleazy and uncomfortable, but they're a miniscule part of the game and aren't necessary in the least, so I've just been ignoring them since I beat the first one. Can't believe some turd-burglars are docking 3-4 points off the score just because of something stupid like that. Wait... *glances at Dragon's Crown reviews* yes I can.

The Gigolo Missions are such an unimportant part of KID that they may as well not exist at all. You can get up to three unlockable weapons by beating them, but from what I've seen, none of them are really that viable in combat and mostly just serve as arbitrary rewards. And while the missions themselves are sleazy and terrible, they're nowhere near as "offensive" as critics claim. They literally amount to nothing more than some dude checking out his girlfriend's cleavage.

Anyone who claims that the Gigolo Missions are "like softcore hentai" is being sensationalist. They're creepy, and you'll feel uncomfortable playing them (though you don't actually have to), but they're honestly pretty PG-13. The pre-order-exclusive Gigolo Glasses make them a lot worse, though.

If you're like me, you'll play it for the awesome story missions and ignore the lame mini-games/side-missions. My verdict is this: if you liked No More Heroes and/or Killer7, you'll like Killer Is Dead just as much.

[Foggle]

Oh yeah, it's worth noting that while most American journalists seem to have received the game poorly, pretty much every Japanese and European review I've seen for the game has been extremely positive. Must be because people in those countries aren't as insecure about sexuality in the media.

[Eddy]

Yeah, I went and found those posts pretty much right after I made that one. Okay, you've made me feel a bit better about getting it. I had a feeling that people were probably overblowing things.

Really, if they have a problem with these optional minigames, they should have had just as much of a problem with hookers in GTA or having sex to regain health in God of War.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Let's not forget how critics completely ignored the feature of having sex for absolutely no reason in the Fable games. Because, you know, if they are going to criticize optional crudeness, then they might as well go all out.

[Foggle]

This makes me so fucking upset.

Shadows of the Damned:

They[EA] told us that 'westerners are about guns, so give him a gun', and the direction of the project turned 180 degrees. EA is a really macho company, and we argued with them as we developed it. Their demands were really strong. We ended up drafting the scenario five times before it was completed. In the end, each was so unique that it felt like I had basically written five different games.

In the very final(fifth) draft, it turned into a love story. EA informed us, "There's this thing called an 'elevator draft', and if you can't tell your story in the length of an elevator ride, Hollywood won't use it." All their stories fall into one of four categories.

Killer Is Dead & Lollipop Chainsaw:

There was a strong request from our publisher, Kadokawa Games, to include sexy female characters, so although we originally only had Vivienne and Mika, we started to add even more to the game. We added a "gigolo mission" in order to boost sales. As for the female character designs, Kadokawa's demands became very overwhelming, to the point that there wasn't room for my own ideas.

We had just finished an earlier project, Lollipop Chainsaw, and I really didn't want there to be this image of "Grasshopper = erotic". Lollipop's backstory wasn't supposed to be erotic at all, but it turned out that way because we added the shell bikini costume(among others)later in development.

However, that was done because the publisher, Kadokawa Games, had a solid idea of what sells, and that became a good learning experience. The development was hard, but in the end, we had fun making this game.

And let's not forget No More Heroes 2's miniscule budget or how Grasshopper is now owned by a company that only makes online F2P games. I'm legitimately angry.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Right there is everything wrong with NA game development and Japan game development in a nutshell.

I guess hoping for a NMH3 is a pipe dream at this point.

[Foggle]

Apparently Grasshopper is remaking The Silver Case again, but this time it will actually come out, and this time it will also be in English. It releases for PC... someday. I don't know. I don't think there's a release date yet.

This is extremely exciting news for me. TSC is a game I've always wanted to play, and it seems like it may be one of Grasshopper's finest works. I hope that we'll eventually get to see English versions of Twilight Syndrome and Moonlight Syndrome too.

I guess Let It Die might come out soon too. I don't like the look of that one at all, but if we can get some old-school Kill The Past-style titles and English remakes of their early work on the side, I guess I can't complain!