Unpopular Opinions You Hold About Animation

[Angus]

I try to enjoy those direct-to-videos. I can tolerate the Barbie movies. Some of them are actually pretty good. As long as they aren't cloned versions of the original (cough Bambi II). Scared Shrekless has some decent references even though many of the other jokes are redundant with the movies.

I have a soft spot for Beavis and Butthead because they popularized channel surfing commentary along with MST3K. Before then you'd have to go watch the Rocky Horror Picture Show. The cartoon part is alright, but Mike Judge definitely gets to do more with characters from King of the Hill, but I'd still find myself quoting stuff from the 1990s series, and early Simpsons episodes.

I also like some of those kids animations like Wonder Pets and Peep and the Big Wide World.

And I like Key Animation, despite what the overwhelming majority of folks here.

[Foggle]

The only cartoons I'm watching right now are Archer and Fate/Zero. And I'm only watching Fate/Zero because my friend loves F/SN (it's a damn good action series, though).

To be honest, I don't really care much for or about animation anymore.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I'd actually agree with this, and I think I've posted about it before. The first season is probably the most consistent of any DCAU show, but the second had too many lame school-based plots and weird science fiction-influenced arcs that weren't any special, while the good ones were harder to find in retrospect. Season 3 was an improvement, but still wasn't on the level on the first season.

I'm sort of the weird one here, but I actually disagree with the both of you. Well, I do agree that we got some weird episodes in season 2 and that the show started gearing towards more school-based plots which I guess on a more objective level is kind of stupid, but you know what. I liked it. I don't care what anyone else says, but when something is entertaining its still the result of good writing and effort, and as far as I'm concerned Batman Beyond was mostly consistent in being entertaining. I'm currently in the middle of season 2 right now as I'm re-watching the series, and personally I don't think its any less entertaining than season 1, and there are still dark episodes in there, so its not like it totally went into high-school centered plots. Either way, though, we put it on our top 65 list so I think we can all at least agree that some part of it is good or at least decent.

[Pharass]

I realize that it's a classic and one of the first (I think) "chase-cartoons", but personally, I've never cared much for Tom & Jerry; any versions of it. I remember the shorts being a decent way to kill a few minutes when I was a kid and couldn't think of anything else to do, but I doubt I'll ever understand why the cat's and mouse's escapades are generally held in such high regards (historical importance?).

Of course, this could've something to do with the fact that I largely prefer my humor to be verbal rather than slapstick. I like Looney Tunes though.

[Eddy]

* As much as I love MLP, the obsessive fanbase that can't accept that someone dislikes the show gets on my nerves. No show is for everyone and MLP is no exception. Also, bronies needs to stop saying Lauren Faust created The Powerpuff Girls and Foster's. She played a big role in those shows for sure but she didn't create them.

On the same hand, I also hate the MLP haters that are flat out enraged that grown men are enjoying a "little girl's cartoon". I don't know how many times I've seen little blog articles pop up from people who have never seen the show before thinking we all must be sexually repressed homosexuals who grew up in father-less homes and that liking this show is a sign of the downfall of America.

* I'll also chime in and say that Sonic SatAM is overrated. And I enjoy the show. But it's not something that would put on a TOP 10 ANIMATED SERIES of all time list or anything. It's also very dated, mostly due to Jaleel White's dialogue.

* I know it gets a lot of hate but I enjoyed the Majin Buu saga in Dragonball Z. I didn't see what made it any more ridiculous or silly than any other saga in the show.

* I think Tangled got more praise than it deserved. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it, but hearing how everyone was going on about it being DISNEY'S TRIUMPHANT RETURN THE BEST DISNEY MOVIE EVER I was expecting a little bit more. What I got as an entertaining movie with great animation but not something I'm going to shout praise for on the roof tops.

* Samurai Jack was, to me, the very definition of a cartoon that was all style and no substance. I found just about every episode boring and all the characters, with the exception of Aku, uninteresting. I can only watch montages of Jack running across fields so many times before I get tired of it. I never understood all the praise this show got.

* I never really cared for Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends. I'm not sure why, I just couldn't get into it. I enjoyed a few of the episodes and I liked the characters of Wilt and Frankie but the show as a whole just wasn't my thing. Bloo might have been a big reason because he was just an unlikable asshole.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

* I know it gets a lot of hate but I enjoyed the Majin Buu saga in Dragonball Z. I didn't see what made it any more ridiculous or silly than any other saga in the show.

Well, I should point out that I absolutely love that arc in the manga. In the manga is a huge tribute to Dragon Ball's early days, what with it being focused more on magic and mysticism than on sci-fi elements or space, being far more gag-oriented and not taking itself too seriously most of the time, and just the fact that it made a character like Vegito possible makes it awesome alone (its pretty rewarding to see Goku and Vegeta team up like that after having been rivals for the entire series). That said, in the anime my problem is that they try to play it out to be more serious which is why it feels more ridiculous than it should (which was OK for me when it wasn't taking itself too seriously in the manga, but feels awkward in the anime), and also that the anime dragged that arc out to be nearly a hundred episodes when it only took up a few volumes in the manga. It has its high points, I guess, but I felt that it suffered most from pacing. Still, in terms of the manga I would actually say that Buu is my favorite arc from the 2nd half of the series.

* Samurai Jack was, to me, the very definition of a cartoon that was all style and no substance. I found just about every episode boring and all the characters, with the exception of Aku, uninteresting. I can only watch montages of Jack running across fields so many times before I get tired of it. I never understood all the praise this show got.

I agree with you 100% on this. I'll never be able to understand what people love so much about this series.

[Avaitor]

Okay, it's Disney time.

• I think Pixar is a bit overrated. They make some wonderful films, but not every film is a masterpiece IMO, and I resent it when certain movies of theirs win awards over other certain animated films that I think deserve more praise. I notice that a handful of people turn against them during award season, but I feel like this all year long.
• I don't hate any DAC movies, or even any of Pixar's. They all have their merits that make for special products and should be celebrated as such. Although I can understand why doing that for some of them can be a pain (Chicken Little, Home on the Range, the Cars movies)
• I prefer Princess and the Frog to Tangled. Better leads, more fun villain, and arguably more memorable music. To me, Tangled felt like Menken was phoning it in throughout most of the whole thing. Meanwhile, I was admittedly skeptical of Randy Newman's score for PATF, but came out surprised at how many of the songs I liked and found the soundtrack to be quite effective most of the time. Not every song was killer, but it had a bigger soundtrack, and I can still recall just about every song there as opposed to Tangled.
  
  I think Tangled gets a couple of points for having a brisker running time and more fun sidekicks, but even then, I really liked Ray and Charlotte.
• As much as I like both of these films however, in the Disney canon, they're not too special. They tread too close to the Renaissance films without doing anything too special or innovative to stand up on their own, as opposed to when Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast and Lion King came out.
• Sadly though, we're never going to get great films from Disney like we did in Walt's time or during the Renaissance, since the climate just isn't there anymore. The creative minds that made the 90's films we all love have either left or want to just repeat past successes, and the new minds have no idea what made these movies great.
• I think that Disney's recent announcement to take a break from telling fairy tales is a good idea. I think they've touched on that type of story so many times that they should focus on others instead. Besides, I'd rather have another Lion King than another Beauty and the Beast.
• As you can tell, I actually prefer their animal films to their fairy tales. I'm kind of burned out on them, tbh, and it gets annoying when the only Disney movies that people can remember are the princess ones and TLK. I get as much if not more enjoyment from Dumbo, Bambi and Lady and the Tramp than I do from say, Cinderella or Mulan.
• That said, if Bolt is any indication to the type of animal films they'd try to make today, I'm not so sure if I want another one. It's a decent enough movie, but more Pixar Lite than a Disney classic.
• On an objective level, Snow White isn't one of Disney's best, but I don't think it's overrated either. I think that it's hard to fault it too much since it is the first of its kind, and Walt and crew were still fixing the kinks on how to turn a storybook into a worthwhile feature film, and for the most part, I think that they succeed. Later films have more interesting characters and effective twists, but the ambition and craft is still there even at an early age.
• Pinocchio, however, is a tad overrated.
• Mickey gets a bum rap today, but I think that he's a good character. True, I prefer Donald and think that Goofy had funny cartoons, but even at the later points of his theatrical run, Mickey was still fun and endearing. I greatly prefer Floyd Gottfredson's comic strips to any Mickey cartoon, though.
• The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad is one of the studio's best, most overlooked classics. Two great stories for the price of one. What more could one ask for?

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I'm not sure if we're allowed to include anime in this thread, but I figured it'd be better than starting a whole new thread just for that:

-I think that almost any anime that comes out these days is utter crap. Sure, I haven't seen close to everything, but just from looking at their uninspired plots alone, anime just sucks in general these days, aside from maybe the occasional series which can maybe be decent at best. I know that some people would argue that there have always been bad anime and we only remember the good ones, which is true, but it doesn't mean that there are really that many good anime these days.

-Kyoto Animation is overrated beyond belief. Aside from the 2 Full Metal Panic! series that they did, I've never understood the appeal of anything else that they have ever done. I don't really get why they're so popular.

-For as hyper-active and over-the-top it is, I think that TTGL is just plain boring more than anything else. I'm actually not that annoyed by its characters or its absurdity, but rather I just feel that beyond that it has very little substance to actually keep it entertaining, which oddly enough is my personal biggest problem with it.

-I actually don't think that the 2nd arc of Death Note was a total bust, at all. Its not as good as the first arc, but personally I actually really like it since it still keeps me entertained quite a bit. Also, I love the ending to the series. To me it makes up for any shortcomings that I did find with the 2nd arc.

-I don't really think that the original Japanese voice acting for Dragon Ball and DBZ is really that great. Its not bad, and I can tolerate the female voice for Goku just fine, but aside from a few exceptions here and there, it sounds pretty average on the whole. I think that the dub for Kai has much more engaging voice-acting (though I do fully acknowledge that all of the old dub's are garbage).

-After having re-watched good chunks of both series, I think I prefer Trigun to Cowboy Bebop. I respect Cowboy Bebop as one of the most prominent and influential anime, especially in the West, but I feel that Trigun is just flat out more entertaining and has a more more likable and interesting lead character.

[Avaitor]

I'm not sure if we're allowed to include anime in this thread, but I figured it'd be better than starting a whole new thread just for that:

Oh yeah, it's fine. I don't see the point of separating anime with other kinds of animation, so feel free to post about Japanese animation here as well.

I just couldn't think of any confessions of my own regarding anime.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Disney's problem is playing it too safe. They went all out for TLM, The Lion King, B&TB, and Aladdin, and the reason none of their later films couldn't capture that spark was because they were too safe and by the numbers. You could argue the former movies were, but you'd have to keep in mind the time in which they were released the elements that seem overused now were not then. TP&TF is a great start, but it's only that; a start. They need to push harder again in order to achieve the heights they once reached.

[Rynnec]

Disney should try for more action-adventure animated films. Not only would it be a breath of fresh air, it would also arugably appeal to a wider audience. Apparently they tried doing this with Tangled, but from what I hear that was mostly just marketing.

[Rosalinas Spare Wand]

I'd love to see that. If we get something that's on par with Treasure Planet, it would be even better.

As for my confessions, the only one that comes to mind is that Madoka Magica is an absolute disappointment. It had the potential to be good and I had high hopes because Shaft had a pretty strong crew behind it, but they blew it and made what essentially amounts to Kamen Rider Ryuki with forced drama and even worse pacing.

[Rynnec]

While I wouldn't say that it's a dissapointment, I will agree that it definitely could have been fleshed out a lot more (Homura's backstory especially).

[Dr. Insomniac]

While I wouldn't say that it's a dissapointment, I will agree that it definitely could have been fleshed out a lot more (Homura's backstory especially).

Yeah, while I thought it was good, it definitely needed to have some more elements established. Hope the movies can do the job.

[Avaitor]

If they can do it right, I'd love to see it. Their previous attempts at movies like that, such as Atlantis and The Black Cauldron, were more conflicting than anything. Apparently Musker and Clements were going to do a movie based off of Mort from the Discworld series, but they bailed on that and might do Snow Queen instead. It's a shame, but at least that might be good.

And the difference between the Renaissance films and the classics (well, one difference) is that the Renaissance films were made as musicals by fans of musicals while Walt's films had music in just cause. Seriously, the only reason Snow White had songs is because a lot of successful movies at the time had musical sequences and they weren't sure if they had enough story to fill up a full film without some diversions. It turned out that the songs added to the story and characters, so they started writing numbers in all of their films. While you could maybe consider Snow White a musical, calling most of the other films made in Walt's time one would be a stretch.

Meanwhile, Eisner and Katzenberg called in Howard Ashman and Alan Menken after really liking Little Shop of Horrors to add some songs into The Little Mermaid, you know, for tradition. After talking to them and hearing some of what they got, they ruled the film and the rest of the animation department. Suddenly, it became a full-fledged musical and for the next decade, that's all that the rest of the studio wanted to make.

But this thread isn't here for history lessons. The point is that the Renaissance films did bring new things to the table from the originals, while still sticking to a lot of what made those movies good. PATF and Tangled are just riding off on the Renaissance films. I mean, they're good, but nothing too special when you consider it.