"The Dark Knight Rises" Talkback (Spoilers)

[gunswordfist]

He wasn't compelled to be Batman again the first time around when he initially tried to stop Bane. The whole idea was that Bruce was pretty miserable and just decided to dawn the cape and cowl again and maybe die with some honor as Batman. Alfred even pointed this out. When he was expressing his disapproval of Bruce becoming Batman Again, Bruce said something along the lines of "Are you afraid I'll lose?" to which Alfred responded "I'm afraid that you want to lose." He didn't really have any proper motivation until he went through that whole prison ordeal. After dealing with his own internal problems and escaping the prison, he was finally ready to be Batman again, for real.

That makes sense. I still feel like they didn't really show anything to have Bruce crawl out of the bed for even those reasons though.

[talonmalon333]

I rate them like this:

The Dark Knight > The Dark Knight Rises >/= Batman Begins

I think Begins is better than some of you guys do. I actually like it better every time I see it. The only problem is the editing, since it's no exaggeration to say I can't see what's happening in those fights.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Batman Begins is a good movie, but if you've ever seen James Rolfe's review on it, he points out a lot of flaws with the movie that I honestly downright agree with. IDK what it is, but the movie never came off to me as anything great. It was a very good Batman movie, but nothing really above that. The Dark Knight found a way to improve on what was wrong with Batman Begins and also had such slick pacing that it never had a dull moment. Its basically the pinnacle of the trilogy.

Now, with The Dark Knight Rises, Christopher Nolan clearly tried his best to make this one top The Dark Knight. The problem with focusing so much on trying to top another movie, though, is that in trying to make things "bigger" and "better" you tend to forget a lot of the little details that also added up to make the other movie a success, and I feel like that's the mistake that Nolan made here. Aside from just the plot holes and whatnot, this movie is also missing stuff like the slick pacing (as I mentioned before, the pacing is all over the place in this movie) and good characterization for the supporting cast that was present in The Dark Knight. Aside from Batman, Bane, and maybe Catwoman, nobody else in the cast gets that much focus for you to care about them that much. That rings especially true for Gordon, Blake, Fox, and Miranda Tate. They are all important characters to the story, yet you constantly keep forgetting that they are even there until another scene pops up with one or more of them in it.

The movie has other minor problems as well, and they do add up, but on the whole I still really enjoyed this movie. Its still a smarter action film than most, and unlike Doug I did care about what was happening in this movie, and on the contrary I found this to be the most compelling use of Batman out of Nolan's 3 films. In the first film I just didn't care about him that much. In the 2nd film it was The Joker who was the real star of the show. In this film, I finally felt like the main importance was placed on Bruce Wayne/Batman and his role as an icon to Gotham.

[Dr. Insomniac]

I personally liked TDKR's ending, and was only bemused at the twist.

Now let's talk about the real meat: Who should succeed Nolan and make the Batman reboot?

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I liked the ending itself, too. Screw the rest of you. Bruce deserves a happy ending.

Anyways, as for who should succeed Nolan, I really have no clue. I would definitely want to see a completely different take on Batman for the reboot. Perhaps something that falls in-between Nolan's pseudo-realistic take on Batman and Tim Burton's much more noir and stylized take on Batman. I'd definitely love to see some real set designs for a Gotham City like in the Tim Burton movies, but it'd be great if they could somehow pull that off without the camp factor that accompanied his Batman, as well.

Now, here's a good question: When the next Batman reboot comes around, who do you want to see featured as the main villain this time?

First off, I'd like to see a villain who wasn't previous featured in a Batman movie before, or another rendition of a villain that just wasn't featured well in a Batman movie before.

For the former, I'd love to see Hugo Strange featured as a villain. They could have Arkham Asylum play a big role in the reboot, as well. For the latter, I'd love to see either The Riddler or Mr. Freeze redone, only this time I want either of them to be done....what's the word for it....oh yeah, good.

[Foggle]

Now let's talk about the real meat: Who should succeed Nolan and make the Batman reboot?

Roman Polanski or David Lynch.

[Avaitor]

Actually, I think Polanski could make a really cool Swamp Thing movie.

[gunswordfist]

I thought Gordon was the only one who didn't really get enough screentime. I thought Blake got a lot of screentime, almost too much until the twist at the end made it make sense. I suspect he was supposed to have that kind of role throughout the movie. I guess Tate should have had more screentime because of a certain part of the movie but she was about as uninteresting as Rachael so whatever.

As for Fox, I was surprised he was in the film at all. At the end of The Dark Knight, it seemed like he'd be gone forever. I haven't seen any trailers or news with him mentioned either, Anyway, he always never had much screentime. He was probably shown more in TDKR than in Batman Begins.

I have no clue who should take over the Batman series. But I would like to see Lady Shiva and David Cain show up. I was actually hoping Talia and Cain would be the main villains in the last film before Bane was announced.

Once I think about it, I want The Riddler to be the main villain in the reboot. Just give him the character design he had in Justice and not make him act too ridiculous.

[talonmalon333]

The movie didn't give me any reason to care about Catwoman or symphasize with her. All they had was the clean slate angle and that didn't do it's job. I will say that I'm impressed that they made her fit into the Nolanverse. When I first heard she'd be in thid movie, I thought she'd be too ridiculous for this Batman series.

My initial worry would be that her role in the movie as Batman's love interest would be awkward and rushed, particularly after Rachel was so established in two whole movies prior. But I actually ended up liking her here.

Batman Begins is a good movie, but if you've ever seen James Rolfe's review on it, he points out a lot of flaws with the movie that I honestly downright agree with.

I always thought James Rolfe's review was a bit overly harsh, and I couldn't agree with many of his points (except, as I mentioned before, the editing). And there are a few things I liked better in Begins than The Dark Knight.

I personally liked TDKR's ending, and was only bemused at the twist.

Yeah, I loved Rises' ending. Michael Caine almost made me cry, seriously. I might go as far as to say his scenes were the best part of the movie.

I'll get to you guys' questions later. Can't think of an answer to either right now.

[gunswordfist]

Forgot to talk about the happy ending. I was kind of expecting Bruce to die. I've only seen him get a happy ending in The Dark Knight Returns.

I was also surprised they said the crime rate went drastically down and that all organized crime was gone. That was the most peaceful I've ever heard Gotham being.

[talonmalon333]

So this is kinda on the topic of what I was saying earlier in this thread, and it's a big claim, but it's an opinion I'd like to get some of you guy's thoughts on.

Michael Caine in TDKR gave the single best performance out of anyone in the whole trilogy. Thoughts?

[Foggle]

I just got back from seeing this. I don't care what anyone says, this was the best goddamn Batman/superhero movie ever. And the ending was great. Necessary, even; I doubt my friend (or the rest of the audience) wanted to see me reduced to tears while the credits rolled. Also, Catwoman and Bane were seriously awesome. I have nothing but praise for this film. Now I gotta' watch TDK again tomorrow.

Michael Caine in TDKR gave the single best performance out of anyone in the whole trilogy. Thoughts?

A-fucking-greed.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I liked the film as well, but I still retain my initial opinion that its also a very flawed film. Its still one of the better superhero movies ever made, though. I certainly won't deny that.

I did like the climax in general, though. It felt appropriately big and unlike Doug I was not underwhelmed at all. I was really excited while watching the conclusion, and couldn't think of a better way to end the trilogy (except for taking out that damned plot twist which I still can't get over).

[Foggle]

I did like the climax in general, though. It felt appropriately big and unlike Doug I was not underwhelmed at all.

I do not understand how someone can be underwhelmed by that climax or this movie in general. I was literally on the edge of my seat the entire time. I came away from the movie saying "I fucking love Batman" like I was 7 years old again.

(except for taking out that damned plot twist which I still can't get over).

You mean the bit with Bane and Talia? Yeah, that was kind of out of nowhere, but it honestly didn't bother me much. Can't say I liked that twist, but I didn't find it particularly objectionable.

[Dr. Insomniac]

I thought the plot twist had some decent foreshadowing (like Talia's scar and how she talked about having to sacrifice in order to bring change) to it, so it wasn't as half-assed as it could've been.