Devil May Cry Series

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I know we have a hack n' slash thread, but I figured that the DMC series is prominent enough to warrant its very own thread.

Anyways, now that I've finally played every current DMC game at least once, here's how I would probably rank them.

1. Devil May Cry 3- I only beat this game once but I'm sure to be hooked on it until I at least conquer DMD mode
2. Devil May Cry- Great level design, shallow combat (but still fun)
3. Devil May Cry 4- Great combat (mostly for Dante, though), shallow (read: lazy) level design
4. Devil May Cry 2- At least there's one game that DmC can't possibly be worse than

I know its weird that I don't rank 4 ahead of 1 given that I prefer the formula from DMC 3 and 4, but for what its worth despite the combat being shallow by today's standards, I really did enjoy all of DMC1 as it has the least amount of padding of any game in the series and it was genuinely fun the entire way through (even DMC3 has some shameless padding of its own). From what I've seen, you'll typically either see people who only like DMC1 and don't care for any of the sequels even after DMC2 (like Desensitized) or people who came to like the style of DMC3 and 4 but don't care for the 1st game at all (like Grave). And of course I think everyone agrees where DMC2 lines within the spectrum.

I feel that DMC4 is a bit too lopsided in terms of quality for me. Some parts of the game are a blast, while other parts are just a drag. As I've stated, I am by no means a hater of Nero. I like all of his base combat, but feel that he really could have been expanded upon, as it seems jarring how limited his combat mechanics feel (to me at least) in comparison to Dante. I also think that the devil bringer is a tad bit overpowered, but I don't hold it against him because I don't have to use it that much in combat if I don't want to, and more often than not I avoid using it as a crutch even though its really easy to do so.

At any rate, I consider DMC3 to be the pinnacle of the series from what I've played of it, and I'm still playing it (right now I'm tackling the game on Hard mode as Dante). Once I beat Hard mode I'll give Vergil a try as well.

While I'll always prefer the combat of the Ninja Gaiden series from a personal standpoint, I think that DMC is pretty much unrivaled in terms of juggle-based mechanics (at least referring to DMC3 and 4), and for what its worth, I honestly like what I've played of DMC3 and 4 more than what I've played of Bayonetta. Yes, I said it. I still want to play Bayonetta in full, but to be honest, despite it being from the original creator of DMC and having a robust combat system to keep up with the times....it just doesn't feel as smooth or as fun as DMC's combat does to me, but maybe that's just because I need more practice with the game. Like I said, I do plan to get into the game someday, but for now I have to honestly say that I prefer DMC.

As for Ninja Theory's spin on DMC, I'm not a fan of the style myself, but the gameplay looks at least half-way decent. Its nowhere near as close to being as fun as DMC3 and 4 from a combat standpoint based on what I've played of it, but it seems to at least have interesting environments and level design, so maybe at the very least it can have gameplay comparable to that of DMC1, but even then the story looks atrocious. Of course, I've never been one to care about story in action games, so in a way it doesn't phase me nearly as much as it might phase some other people.

[gunswordfist]

Yeah, DmC clearly won't be on 4's level.

I wish Dante would get air combos for all of his styles and more than one air combo.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Dante has more than 1 air combo if you count the fact that he actually has more than 1 weapon unlike a certain other half-baked character.

Having him only have access to air combos with the sword master style is fine. It balances out the game and is there if you want to be stylish. In DMC4 especially there is no reason to complain as you can switch between styles on the fly. If you've actually watched any pro combo videos for this game, you'll know that with enough practice you can instantaneously switch between styles as you need them, so you can activate Dante's sword master style as soon as you knock an enemy up into the air, and then you can activate another style of your choice as soon as you land. That's the best possible combat system for Dante to use. He doesn't need anymore improvement beyond that.

[Rynnec]

The only thing Dante needs to improve his combat his combat in 4 is the ability to surf on downed enemies from 3.  Nero's combat can be expanded by having some of his DT moves available in base form, expanding on the Exceed feature, and being able to do more things with the Devil Bringer such as grabbing an enemy and using them to bash other enemies ala the second Zone of the Enders, being able to throw enemies, punching enemies, etc.


The main problem with DmC's story is the same with NG3's story. They're making it the focus of the game, despite it being worse than the storylines of the other games, and much like NG3, Tameem and Ninja Theory clearly want you to take the story and characters seriously. On the bright side Vergil's gameplay looks pretty solid, and the recent CG trailer actually looks pretty cool.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

However, Ninja Gaiden 3 is FAR, FAR worse than DmC. At least DmC isn't using the story as an excuse to completely butcher the gameplay and get lazy as fuck with the content like Hayashi and Team Ninja did in NG3 and even Razor's Edge. I mean, the gameplay in DmC doesn't look to be on par with DMC3 and 4, but you can at least tell that Ninja Theory is genuinely trying to make good gameplay and trying to win over some of the fans, whereas Team Ninja clearly just didn't give a fuck when they made NG3, so for that reason I'll give DmC just a little bit of respect. I don't expect to love the game, but I don't see myself hating on it either unless the whole game is a total bust, but going by the demo it'll probably be a slightly above average action game, which is more than I was initially expecting given this developer's track record, so I can't really say that I'd be disappointed with the final result.

Also, speaking of story, while I never play these games for story, I actually do have just a really mild investment in DMC's story continuum. I'm really attracted to the mythos more than anything else, and I really would've loved to see the world of DMC expanded upon in future games. I would love to have seen a DMC5 that actually continues the DMC story by going forward rather than backwards for once (seriously, there's no game in the series that takes place after DMC2 just because Dante got sent to Hell in that one). I'd love to see some light shed on Nero's back-story, and I'd love to see a situation where we got to see The Legendary Dark Knight Sparda in action for once. There's so much potential that the DMC series has in terms of expanding its story and Universe that we'll likely never get to see since Capcom flat out doesn't care about what fans want anymore.

Oh, BTW, I just came to realize that the same team that made DMC2 is in fact the same team that made DMC3 and 4, which honestly baffles me. I guess it proves that developers of bad games can eventually redeem themselves, and in some cases make some of the best games ever. Is it wrong for this to give me hope that the current Team Ninja can turn themselves around and make Ninja Gaiden games good again?

[Rynnec]

Also, speaking of story, while I never play these games for story, I actually do have just a really mild investment in DMC's story continuum. I'm really attracted to the mythos more than anything else, and I really would've loved to see the world of DMC expanded upon in future games. I would love to have seen a DMC5 that actually continues the DMC story by going forward rather than backwards for once (seriously, there's no game in the series that takes place after DMC2 just because Dante got sent to Hell in that one). I'd love to see some light shed on Nero's back-story, and I'd love to see a situation where we got to see The Legendary Dark Knight Sparda in action for once. There's so much potential that the DMC series has in terms of expanding its story and Universe that we'll likely never get to see since Capcom flat out doesn't care about what fans want anymore.

That's another reason I'm not to big on the reboot, there were so many plot points and time periods left uncovered that rebooting it feels pointless. But yeah, I and many other fans would like to see those things explored. The least they could do is make an OVA adaptation of DMC1 (that takes into account the retcons made in later games) and DMC3. Hell, they could've made the movie that's been greenlighted take place in the old continuity, that way at least fans of the original series would have something to look forward to.

BTW, have you checked out the DMC anime? It's not as over-the-top as the games (since it focuses on Dante's more "mundane" missions, and since it's in continuity with the games they obviously can't do anything "big"), and there are one or two episodes it could've done without, but it's still pretty good for an anime based on a videogame.

Oh, BTW, I just came to realize that the same team that made DMC2 is in fact the same team that made DMC3 and 4, which honestly baffles me. I guess it proves that developers of bad games can eventually redeem themselves, and in some cases make some of the best games ever. Is it wrong for this to give me hope that the current Team Ninja can turn themselves around and make Ninja Gaiden games good again?

Since Hayashi seems to realize how much he and TN fucked up with NG3, I'd say anything is possible.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

That's another reason I'm not to big on the reboot, there were so many plot points and time periods left uncovered that rebooting it feels pointless. But yeah, I and many other fans would like to see those things explored. The least they could do is make an OVA adaptation of DMC1 (that takes into account the retcons made in later games) and DMC3. Hell, they could've made the movie that's been greenlighted take place in the old continuity, that way at least fans of the original series would have something to look forward to.

Yeah, I believe one of the biggest complaints that most fans had when DmC was announced was that they were disappointed that the series wouldn't be moving forward with a DMC5, in which many fans hoped to learn more about Nero's past and how it may have had something to do with Vergil (which was pretty heavily implied in DMC4 given Nero's reaction to Yamato and how he needed it to use his Devil Trigger). Nero in general made a perfect rival for Dante since Vergil was killed off, and it would've been nice to see the next game have them tackle a foe so big that the 2 of them were forced to work together (along with Lady and Trish). Most of all, though, I want to see a game that takes place after DMC2, which Capcom still considers canon. If that's the case, then make it so that Dante somehow returns back to his normal cocky-self after DMC2 (and they could easily write in any bull-shit reason that he can return from Hell, so its not like that's a problem). I just hate the idea of DMC2 being the true ending of the series, as it feels like a very bleak and grim ending being that its not only the worst game but also the worst the story has ever been. It commits the cardinal sin of being bland as hell. Even DmC's abysmal story probably won't be boring, as I see a lot of potential unintentional humor to be experienced in that particular game.

BTW, have you checked out the DMC anime? It's not as over-the-top as the games (since it focuses on Dante's more "mundane" missions, and since it's in continuity with the games they obviously can't do anything "big"), and there are one or two episodes it could've done without, but it's still pretty good for an anime based on a videogame.

I watched the first 2 or 3 episodes of it and found it to be kind of boring. It honestly kind of reminded me of DMC2 for some reason, which is certainly not a good thing. However, I do like that Dante was still a bit cocky in it, and I also liked that they got the same voice actor for Dante in the games (well, at least DMC3 and 4, which I find to be the best Dante voice, anyways, and the only one that I identify with the character) to do his voice in the anime. I wouldn't mind if they made another DMC anime that tackled a much bigger story, though. Just get the writers from Capcom who worked on DMC3 and 4 to write a big story that would take up a full anime season, and then they could adapt that into an anime and call it canon and it'd probably be really entertaining. Something that followed the general tone of DMC3 would be ideal, as IMO that's the high point of the DMC series in terms of story-telling (as well as gameplay, of course).

[Rynnec]

A DMC game taking place after 2 should chronicle Dante's escape from Hell and feature him fighting all the games previous bosses and finally making peace with Vergil. Also, how convienient that Dante let Nero keep Yamato, a sword that can open the gates of hell. Gee, I wonder what Nero would use that power for if he ever found out his rival/mentor was stuck in hell.

I watched the first 2 or 3 episodes of it and found it to be kind of boring. It honestly kind of reminded me of DMC2 for some reason, which is certainly not a good thing. However, I do like that Dante was still a bit cocky in it, and I also liked that they got the same voice actor for Dante in the games (well, at least DMC3 and 4, which I find to be the best Dante voice, anyways, and the only one that I identify with the character) to do his voice in the anime. I wouldn't mind if they made another DMC anime that tackled a much bigger story, though. Just get the writers from Capcom who worked on DMC3 and 4 to write a big story that would take up a full anime season, and then they could adapt that into an anime and call it canon and it'd probably be really entertaining. Something that followed the general tone of DMC3 would be ideal, as IMO that's the high point of the DMC series in terms of story-telling (as well as gameplay, of course).

Dante's portrayal in the anime actually reminded me a lot of Spike Spiegal. In all honesty I actually like that version of Dante quite a bit (possibly even more than  4's), he has that right mix of calm, cool, and cocky that I'm sure what DMC2 was trying to go for, and failed miserably.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

A DMC game taking place after 2 should chronicle Dante's escape from Hell and feature him fighting all the games previous bosses and finally making peace with Vergil. Also, how convienient that Dante let Nero keep Yamato, a sword that can open the gates of hell. Gee, I wonder what Nero would use that power for if he ever found out his rival/mentor was stuck in hell.

You know, that'd also be a terrific opportunity to finally have Dante meet his own father, Sparda, face to face. It'd be great to see Sparda, the guy who was always built up as being the ultimate bad-ass of the DMC Universe, finally have his big reveal in a DMC game. While its probably more effective to always have him talked about in the background, I still think every DMC fan really just wants to see the guy in action after 4 games of just talking about him.

BTW, This is kind of off-topic, but speaking of the anime and how it tackles Dante taking on episodic jobs and cases rather than just big ones, I remember that it did give me what I consider to be a good idea for a spin-off DMC game (though still featuring Dante as the main playable character). I was thinking it'd be really cool to have a sort of GTA-style DMC game, only in the sense that you have a large demon-infested town to explore and you actually got to play through Dante's daily-life in terms of the regular sorts of missions that he takes on. That'd still contain plenty of hack n' slash action as each mission could lead to its own level that you have to fight through, but I feel as though it'd be a unique and interesting angle to tackle the DMC series from. You could take only the missions you want and others could be optional, you could tackle them in any order you see fit, and you could actually earn money for them (or red orbs, I suppose), and have that be your main way to upgrade your arsenal. That's just an idea I had, but I think it'd make for a pretty cool new DMC experience, personally.

Dante's portrayal in the anime actually reminded me a lot of Spike Spiegal. In all honesty I actually like that version of Dante quite a bit (possibly even more than  4's), he has that right mix of calm, cool, and cocky that I'm sure what DMC2 was trying to go for, and failed miserably.

I'm actually fine with Dante's portrayal in the anime. Its just that everything else about the anime feels so....un-DMC like. Probably even more so than DMC2 did. I think an anime about episodic cases that Dante tackles is fine, but I suppose I expect more demon slaying and less boring side-characters. That said, I only watched the first 3 episodes, so I'm sure the series probably gets better later on. I just kind of wish there was a DMC anime that followed suit with the style of DMC3 instead, in that it could still be episodic but it'd have Dante tackling all sorts of over-the-top manner of demons. I suppose if the DMC anime lacked anything significant more me, its that I wanted to see Dante fight larger-than-life bad guys like Phantom, Griffon, Cerberus, Beowulf, and so on. It'd also be cool if we could see some of Dante's alternate weapons from other games make an appearance in the anime, even if they wouldn't make as much sense as just using his main sword, Rebellion. I mean, you can't tell me it wouldn't be awesome to see Dante demon-slaying in a DMC anime by jamming sick tunes with Nevan, could you?

[Rynnec]

BTW, This is kind of off-topic, but speaking of the anime and how it tackles Dante taking on episodic jobs and cases rather than just big ones, I remember that it did give me what I consider to be a good idea for a spin-off DMC game (though still featuring Dante as the main playable character). I was thinking it'd be really cool to have a sort of GTA-style DMC game, only in the sense that you have a large demon-infested town to explore and you actually got to play through Dante's daily-life in terms of the regular sorts of missions that he takes on. That'd still contain plenty of hack n' slash action as each mission could lead to its own level that you have to fight through, but I feel as though it'd be a unique and interesting angle to tackle the DMC series from. You could take only the missions you want and others could be optional, you could tackle them in any order you see fit, and you could actually earn money for them (or red orbs, I suppose), and have that be your main way to upgrade your arsenal. That's just an idea I had, but I think it'd make for a pretty cool new DMC experience, personally.

Funny enough, I read a similar idea for a DMC game on another forum. I think such a game would be a lot like the Armored Core series and the first No More Heroes.

I mean, you can't tell me it wouldn't be awesome to see Dante demon-slaying in a DMC anime by jamming sick tunes with Nevan, could you?

That would be the best thing to ever happen in an anime in recent years. Also, a hypothetical second DMC-anime should also show Dante's Devil Trigger since the first one crapped out on showing it (it cut away right as he was activating it, it was such a tease).

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Funny enough, I read a similar idea for a DMC game on another forum. I think such a game would be a lot like the Armored Core series and the first No More Heroes.

That makes me wonder what kind of game we'd get if they ever got Suda51 to make a DMC game.

That would be the best thing to ever happen in an anime in recent years. Also, a hypothetical second DMC-anime should also show Dante's Devil Trigger since the first one crapped out on showing it (it cut away right as he was activating it, it was such a tease).

And that's just another reason why this anime disappoints me.

Seriously, though, DMC deserves another shot at an anime. It could really be adapted into something special if put in the right hands. I'm sure the anime we got was fine on its own, but there's just so much mythos that could be taken advantage of, and honestly another anime would be the perfect way to expand on DMC's story-line, which as far as I'm concerned is the best of any of the big hack n' slash games out there (most people would say God of War has the best story, but you know very well that I don't much care for GoW, myself).

[Grave]

I gotta do this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZpAIdqAA-U

That nearly put DMC4 over 3 for me, especially when I first saw that in the game. I love me some cutscenes especially if they're flashy. Anyway, this is how I remember Dante. This reboot really messes with his image, dropping F-bombs and whatnot. It's outta character. I'd see Nero dropping F-bombs before Dante, and even if Capcom/Ninja Theory wants to say it fits with him because of him being young in this then http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CumydKsSz-g&list=PL7E6692CA17E7E7E6, again, this is how I remember young Dante. I don't recall him ever cussing in any of the games. I remember hearing in some interview (I think it was IGN or G4) that Tameem (is that his name?) was trying to have Dante fit in more with today's culture. Don't get me wrong I don't mind cussing, but from someone who hasn't,  and to change him to fit in with what goes on today? Why? I'd say Capcom/Ninja Theory is definitely about to alienate DMC's fanbase much like Team Ninja if it hasn't been done already.

Now as far as the rest of the games go, of course I'd rank them like DMC3, 4, 1 (I've yet to really play DMC2). Did I really say I don't care for the first? (I'ma have to go back and check) If I did I have to rephrase myself. It's not that I don't like the first one, it's just the combat is much more satisfying in the 3rd and 4th games till it's hard for me to try and play the 1st again. I'm contradicting myself for sure though since I have no issue with Nero's moveset (I do agree that he could use more moves from his DT in his base combat), but find Dante's moveset to be very small in DMC1 hence the whole, not able to go back to playing it. I've gotten so accustomed to Dante's large variety of moves (even in UMvC3) to the point where it's not satisfying to play DMC1 anymore.

I also haven't watched the anime. I've seen the first episode but dropped it afterwards because I've been growing to hate Madhouse as of late with the cheap ways of using animation. While I see DMC can work as a movie, I'm against movies based on games. I'd much rather see some OVA's since studios seem to put more budget in those kinda things.

[gunswordfist]

Dante has more than 1 air combo if you count the fact that he actually has more than 1 weapon unlike a certain other half-baked character.

Having him only have access to air combos with the sword master style is fine. It balances out the game and is there if you want to be stylish. In DMC4 especially there is no reason to complain as you can switch between styles on the fly. If you've actually watched any pro combo videos for this game, you'll know that with enough practice you can instantaneously switch between styles as you need them, so you can activate Dante's sword master style as soon as you knock an enemy up into the air, and then you can activate another style of your choice as soon as you land. That's the best possible combat system for Dante to use. He doesn't need anymore improvement beyond that.

Not having air combos for all styles and more than air combo in a game that has heavy focus on juggling is stupid

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So in other words, Devil May Cry 1 is a piece of garbage for not having air combos at all (by your standards), and you just flat-out suck too much at gaming to press right on the d-pad to switch into the sword master style. Do you even realize how insane Dante's style cancels are? If you master how to chain combos together through the various cancels that Dante's combat allows you, then you can string together all sorts of combos that even Nero and his newbie devil bringer could never hope to achieve. Dante can cancel from one combo to another through changes in style, devil arms, and his guns. Give me one thing that Nero can do that can even compare to that.

[Grave]

Dante can cancel from one combo to another through changes in style, devil arms, and his guns. Give me one thing that Nero can do that can even compare to that.

Slam people and be done with it. I don't think Nero is/was meant to be as flashy as Dante to begin with. I see Dante having all that stuff as a means to showoff, and rightfully so. I see the changes in styles, devil arms and amounts of guns as Dante (along with his personality). The large array of moves makes him who he is (To even implement that in a fighting game gotta say something). As I said, Nero is the powerhouse. You can see that with every single sword strike (Exceed just makes it that much better), and then Vergil being your well rounded. I don't know if Capcom thinks about stuff like that (Kudos if you do), but that's my take on it. You give Nero anymore weapons your basically asking for another Dante/Vergil, but probably more overpowered. Perhaps that's what people wanted to begin with, and maybe I'm giving Capcom too much credit "shrugs".