Hack n' Slash games

[Foggle]

I pretty much agree completely with your first list, though I think I would swap DMC 4 and Bayonetta. Clearly we have very similar taste. I guess I'll rank my favorites, too.

NGB > Bayonetta > MGR > DMC3 > DMC1 = NG2 > DMC4 > GoW 2 > Shinobi > DmC > Nightshade > GoW1 = GoW3 >>>>>>>>>>> NG3 > DMC2

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Damn, your list reminds me that I still need to play Metal Gear Rising (and Darksiders 2, now that I think about it). I've just been waiting for them to come down in price (I'm especially surprised that DS2 still costs so much given that THQ went under already).

Oh, and that reminds me: I'd rank the original DS's combat below GoW. The sequel looks like a massive improvement, though.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I pretty much agree completely with your first list, though I think I would swap DMC 4 and Bayonetta. Clearly we have very similar taste. I guess I'll rank my favorites, too.

Well, I'd give the overall edge to Bayonetta since most of DMC4 is Nero's game. However, I just find DMC4's Dante to be ridiculously crazy in just how much stuff you can do with him. Bayonetta has a deep and robust combat system as well, but there's just something about DMC4's Dante that leaves me in awe in just how much the developers managed to cram into a single character. From all of the games that I've played so far, I think that DMC4 Dante may just have the widest assortment of moves of any hack n' slash character to date. That said, I can see how most people would find Bayonetta's combat more satisfying, and for me it was a close call, either way, but I gave Dante the edge. I still ranked NG2 the highest, because even though its not technically the deepest combat system (its still high up there in how incredibly nuanced it is, though), its easily the most immediately satisfying yet simultaneously rewarding combat system that I have ever encountered in a video game yet.

Also, I should point out that I purposely didn't rank NG3 since I haven't played anything beyond the demo, yet. Granted that, I know it sucks hard from what I did play, but I still need to play most of the game to properly rank it, anyways. It'd probably end up tying with DMC2 for me, though.

[Foggle]

Yeah, NG2's combat is crazy satisfying. The game itself isn't the best, but goddamn is it fun to play.

To be honest, I've only played the demos of DmC and NG3, but I feel pretty comfortable ranking them where I did.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

As a matter of fact, I was just playing Mission Mode in NG2 today, and it was insanely satisfying just to pick up and play again. After having replayed most of NGB, I can say that its clear that the already great combat received a lot of time and attention to make give it a huge upgrade, and the result is something that just has to be played to be truly appreciated. That said, everything else about the game was unfortunately a step down from NGB. I still think its a damn good game, though, even with its flaws, and for me at least my time playing it has reaffirmed that Team Ninja used to be insanely talented at making action games when Itagaki was the head of development. If NG2 hadn't been rushed, it very well could have become one of the best titles in its genre.

As for DmC, to be fair I've heard that the actual fully realized combat in the finished product is a lot better than what's on offer in the demo, but that's only what I've heard. With NG3, though, it is pretty much confirmed that the entire thing is unresponsive and bland crap the entire way through. Responsive controls and insanely satisfying combat is the one thing that the first 2 NG games had down in spades, despite any of their shortcomings. I have no idea how Team Ninja managed to so royally fuck up something that already worked perfectly fine before that, but somehow they managed to do it. Its quite sad, really.

[Foggle]

They could have just made it a large level pack for NG2, really. Don't know how they fucked that up.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Honestly, they could have left NG2's combat untouched and made the level design more akin to NGB. And that right there is all you need to make the best game in history. Yet they royally fuck it all up. How? By trying to make Ninja Gaiden into a Call of Duty game....yeah, you heard me right....and that's when they might as well have have burned every copy of NGB and NG2 that they had on hand and then proceed to stick their middle fingers out in unison and have a caption in the picture stating "fuck the fans."

Seriously, what other developer decides to just so abruptly turn on the fans that have supported them and their games for OVER a freaking decade and then decide to try and cater to fans of an entire different genre of games (and still fail at that, as well)?

I wish that Platinum Games didn't have a strong bias against the Ninja Gaiden series (at least Kamiya does) and that Tecmo would actually be willing to do something with the series other than bleeding it out dry by instead outsourcing it to a C-level American development team with not a single successful title under their name. Anyone care to enlighten me on just what Tecmo's business strategy is, here?

[Foggle]

I don't think Kamiya actually dislikes NG, he just has a joke feud with Itagaki like Harada does. That said, I think P* respects Itagaki and his team enough to not play Tecmo's game, so I can't see them going for the whole outsourcing thing.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Well, as I recall, Kamiya is genuinely not interested in Ninja Gaiden, though he does state that he can't say anything negative about the games themselves since he has never played any of them and doesn't ever intend to. Itagaki gave a joke response to this by just mocking Kamiya's seeming fascination with hair in Bayonetta, showing that he really had no hard feelings about the comment.

But, yeah, Platinum would never go for an outsourcing deal with NG, but I kind of think it has more to do with no interest in the series rather than out of respect for Itagaki, though I do believe that they have a genuine overall respect for Itagaki himself and developers like him, all the same.

[gunswordfist]

I wish there was a NG1 remake with all of NG2's weapons and moves.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I wish there was a NG1 remake with all of NG2's weapons and moves.

That, and also bringing back the Kitetsu, Plasma Saber Mk II, Dabilarho, Unlabored Flawlessness, Dark Dragon Blade, and APFSDS Cores/Explosive Arrows from Ninja Gaiden Black. Those weapons were so bad-ass that I cannot for the life of me fathom why they were never brought back. Hell, you'd think that with NG3 being all focused on swords and "cutting" that they would have at least had the sense to bring back the Kitetsu in that game, but they fucked that up as well.

[Grave]

If I were to rank them.

DMC3=DMC4>NG2>NG1>MGR>everything else

There are times where I do stick up for the God of War games, but that's mainly because of the level of satisfaction I get, especially when I'm pissed, but they are no where near as fun as the DMCs or NGs. With that said though, MGR is definitely a lot more satisfying than GOW, and just might be more satisfying than all every game in the genre. I've yet to do a 2nd playthrough.

[gunswordfist]

I wish there was a NG1 remake with all of NG2's weapons and moves.

That, and also bringing back the Kitetsu, Plasma Saber Mk II, Dabilarho, Unlabored Flawlessness, Dark Dragon Blade, and APFSDS Cores/Explosive Arrows from Ninja Gaiden Black. Those weapons were so bad-ass that I cannot for the life of me fathom why they were never brought back. Hell, you'd think that with NG3 being all focused on swords and "cutting" that they would have at least had the sense to bring back the Kitetsu in that game, but they fucked that up as well.

I have no clue why they took away the explosive arrows.

[Rynnec]

DMC3
Bayonetta = MGR
NGB/S
Devil May Cry 4
No More Heroes 1
GoW3
DmC = GoW:Ascension
GoW1

A pile of shit


NG3/Razor's Edge = DMC2

My personal hack'n slash ranking. Keep in mind that I've only played the demo's for the GoW's, DmC, and vanilla NG3. I've only played the first level of DMC2, but that was enough for me to know that no good could come from it.

In terms of combat, DMC4 would tie with DMC3, or possibly even surpass it, but ranking things based on the actual games themselves, DMC4's flaws keep it from being that high. Bayo and MGR may not have any Bloody Palace modes, but their campaigns more than make up for that.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

DMC3
Bayonetta = MGR
NGB/S
Devil May Cry 4
No More Heroes 1
GoW3
DmC = GoW:Ascension
GoW1

Just out of curiosity, where would you rank DMC1?

A pile of shit

NG3/Razor's Edge = DMC2

The saddest thing about this is that at least DMC2 had an excuse for being completely ass. Its still inexcusable, but it was given to a completely new development team and was rushed out the door as fast as possible, so it was always doomed to fail. In NG3's case, however, it was made by people who SHOULD have known better, but they deliberately ignored their fans and made a series of the dumbest consecutive decisions that I've ever seen any developer make for a single game in history.

I've only played the first level of DMC2, but that was enough for me to know that no good could come from it.

If I didn't feel the absolute need to be a completionist and at least force myself to play through the entire game once, and instead was smart like you, I would have done the same. Unfortunately I had to force myself to slog through the whole damn thing until I beat it, and then I never touched it again. Believe it or not, the game actually gets worse. This may easily be the worst non-broken video game that I have ever played (though once I play all of NG3 for the same reasons, it may indeed tie with it, or dare I say even top it).

In terms of combat, DMC4 would tie with DMC3, or possibly even surpass it, but ranking things based on the actual games themselves, DMC4's flaws keep it from being that high.

As I indicated in my rankings earlier, I think that Dante's combat in DMC4 specifically is the best combat mechanics of the entire franchise to date. That said, I think that Nero's combat, while great on its own, isn't nearly as robust or as much fun, and the same goes for Vergil in DMC3, who is also a fun character, but just feels far more shallow than what Dante has to offer.

Bayo and MGR may not have any Bloody Palace modes, but their campaigns more than make up for that.

I do still wish more games had modes like those, though. I love Bloody Palace mode (even though I suck at it), and I especially get addicted to Mission Mode in NGB. I also like NG2's mission mode, albeit to a lesser degree.