Reviews & Features Discussion

[Foggle]

I finally wrote about Kill la Kill again. It's kind of a personal piece. http://animationrevelation.com/readables/?p=3200

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Great write-up, Foggle!

It's a nice analysis, and while I didn't initially view if that way, I can certainly see where you're coming from. I will admit that I feel a bit opposite of you about the series, in that personally I preferred the second half to the first half, and I do think that it actually had a message to it, which I briefly touched upon in my write-up for that story arc, but putting that aside,mi do fully agree with your sentiment about the final episode's message, which is that we need to move on.

I've always felt that way about any series that I get really invested in. For instance, I'm a fan of Buffy: The Vampire Slayer, and I thought that the series had as perfect of an ending as you could hope for. Then I found out about the comics that continue the story and....I just didn't want to read them. In my mind, the story was concluded, and I just didn't feel interested in being what happened after that, because I was throughly satisfied with what I'd gotten out of the series and instead just wanted to move onto new things.

With something like Cowboy Bebop, a lot of people argued whether Spike was really dead or not for the sake of the possibility of a sequel. And, yes, Watanabe purposely left it up to people's own interpretation, and never explicitly said that Spike was dead, but he also made it clear that whether he was alive or dead wasn't really what was important about the ending. People who are so fixated on just that are completely missing the point of the ending. I know that sounds strange since he's the main character, but really think about it. Spike himself said that he wasn't going to where Vicious was to did. He was going to see if he was really alive. Spike needs to fulfill his story by facing his past, and the important thing here is that he CONCLUDES HIS STORY. In that regard, whether he's alive or dead does not matter at this point. Even if he were alive, he wouldn't be the same character anymore now that he could let go of his past, and the sequel potential still would not be there, because Spike's story was done. And, regardless, this was a series that was primarily about episodic adventures, which is something that most people seem to forget about, as well. It was never something fixated too much on continuity, so the ending can really just be seen as the end of Spike's adventures with the Bebop crew. I also know this because the ending of Cowboy Bebop is a direct homage and reference to the ending of another famous and iconic series that also purposely ended in a way that let the viewer interpret the outcome of the main character's fate, but also never continued beyond that point because for all intents and purposes, that was the end of his story, whether he was dead or alive.

Likewise, with Kill La Kill, the ending is the conclusion of Ryuko's story. She had her complete character arc, and the writers did what they wanted to in order to fulfill a complete story-line. What this special proves is that, there is really no point to a new series because there is nothing left to tell, and Imaishi and Trigger can move onto different works that they can actually be passionate about, rather than being forced to continue something that they already feel that they have satisfactorily finished just because it's popular.

[Spark Of Spirit]

Good stuff, Foggle. I still have to get around to watching the rest.

With something like Cowboy Bebop, a lot of people argued whether Spike was really dead or not for the sake of the possibility of a sequel. And, yes, Watanabe purposely left it up to people's own interpretation, and never explicitly said that Spike was dead, but he also made it clear that whether he was alive or dead wasn't really what was important about the ending. People who are so fixated on just that are completely missing the point of the ending. I know that sounds strange since he's the main character, but really think about it. Spike himself said that he wasn't going to where Vicious was to did. He was going to see if he was really alive. Spike needs to fulfill his story by facing his past, and the important thing here is that he CONCLUDES HIS STORY. In that regard, whether he's alive or dead does not matter at this point. Even if he were alive, he wouldn't be the same character anymore now that he could let go of his past, and the sequel potential still would not be there, because Spike's story was done. And, regardless, this was a series that was primarily about episodic adventures, which is something that most people seem to forget about, as well. It was never something fixated too much on continuity, so the ending can really just be seen as the end of Spike's adventures with the Bebop crew. I also know this because the ending of Cowboy Bebop is a direct homage and reference to the ending of another famous and iconic series that also purposely ended in a way that let the viewer interpret the outcome of the main character's fate, but also never continued beyond that point because for all intents and purposes, that was the end of his story, whether he was dead or alive.

It reminds me of some of the reviews for Winter Soldier that were criticizing it because "Well, you just know Cap won't die so there's no tension!"

I don't know who watches action movies (or any, really) solely to see if the protagonist will live. I enjoy stories to wonder if the protagonist will succeed over the villain. To me that's the more important goal.

That's why I always thought the whole "Spike is dead/is not!" argument fairly pointless. It doesn't really matter as far as the story is concerned. He succeeded. He won.

[Rynnec]

Excellent write-up, Foggle. While I enjoyed the OVA more than I did the final episode, I completely understand where you're coming from.

I've seen more than my fair share of people wishing there favorite series would never end, that there would be more sequels and spin-offs starring the characters they've grown so attached to, but for me the end is the end, and that's all there is to it.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Excellent write-up, Foggle. While I enjoyed the OVA more than I did the final episode, I completely understand where you're coming from.

I've seen more than my fair share of people wishing there favorite series would never end, that there would be more sequels and spin-offs starring the characters they've grown so attached to, but for me the end is the end, and that's all there is to it.

Too bad Kubo and Kishimoto could never learn from this logic.

I swear to god that I've heard Kubo say that Bleach Gould be ending soon for years, now. It's now 2014 and....yep, it's still going. But I'm still assured that it's "almost" over. Go figure.

[Rynnec]

You know how modern shounen logic works: final battles need to be dragged out for god knows how long to make things feel more "epic".

[LumRanmaYasha]

Man, Foggle, I can imagine that writing about this was very cathartic for you. Brilliant write-up. I agree the OVA does feel unnecessary to some extent, since it doesn't add anything to the ending or story of the series, but at the same time, I don't think it was meant to. As it is, despite being the technical last episode, it's not the end of the series canonically, since the events of this OVA take place sometime after the battle with Ragyo but before the final scenes of the last episode (evidenced by how Satsuki gets the short hair-cut we see her have at the end of #24 at the end of this OVA). Ultimately, the OVA just serves as one last hurrah for the series, and to make the point you highlighted in your write-up: things can't stay the same forever, and we must move-on. Obviously, they could probably extend KLK if they really wanted without as much problem since the ending is more open to new possibilities than those of series like CB or NGE, but the core character arcs and central conflict of the series have already been resolved, and there is nothing more we need to see with these characters, and nothing left to explore otherwise, and thus the ending should remain just that, and I think they recognize this. Good for them, and us all, I say. It's better a series go off while in it's prime and having resolved it's purpose, rather then pointlessly continue for the sake of it.

[Foggle]

Aw, thanks for all the great comments, guys! Really encourages me to write more for the blog.

It's a nice analysis, and while I didn't initially view if that way, I can certainly see where you're coming from. I will admit that I feel a bit opposite of you about the series, in that personally I preferred the second half to the first half, and I do think that it actually had a message to it, which I briefly touched upon in my write-up for that story arc, but putting that aside,mi do fully agree with your sentiment about the final episode's message, which is that we need to move on.

Yeah, I think most people like the second half more than the first one, so I'm a bit of an odd bird there. Really, I loved the whole show, though I found the final episode to be somewhat disappointing compared to the previous climactic ones (like #15).

I've always felt that way about any series that I get really invested in. For instance, I'm a fan of Buffy: The Vampire Slayer, and I thought that the series had as perfect of an ending as you could hope for. Then I found out about the comics that continue the story and....I just didn't want to read them. In my mind, the story was concluded, and I just didn't feel interested in being what happened after that, because I was throughly satisfied with what I'd gotten out of the series and instead just wanted to move onto new things.

Yeah, that's usually how I feel too, though I will admit to thirsting for more Firefly episodes over the years, and right now I wish there was a third season or movie of Space Dandy. But after reading those recent Firefly comics, I've finally realized it was a good things that the series ended when it did with the film. The comics are just awful.

With something like Cowboy Bebop, a lot of people argued whether Spike was really dead or not for the sake of the possibility of a sequel. And, yes, Watanabe purposely left it up to people's own interpretation, and never explicitly said that Spike was dead, but he also made it clear that whether he was alive or dead wasn't really what was important about the ending. People who are so fixated on just that are completely missing the point of the ending. I know that sounds strange since he's the main character, but really think about it. Spike himself said that he wasn't going to where Vicious was to did. He was going to see if he was really alive. Spike needs to fulfill his story by facing his past, and the important thing here is that he CONCLUDES HIS STORY. In that regard, whether he's alive or dead does not matter at this point. Even if he were alive, he wouldn't be the same character anymore now that he could let go of his past, and the sequel potential still would not be there, because Spike's story was done. And, regardless, this was a series that was primarily about episodic adventures, which is something that most people seem to forget about, as well. It was never something fixated too much on continuity, so the ending can really just be seen as the end of Spike's adventures with the Bebop crew. I also know this because the ending of Cowboy Bebop is a direct homage and reference to the ending of another famous and iconic series that also purposely ended in a way that let the viewer interpret the outcome of the main character's fate, but also never continued beyond that point because for all intents and purposes, that was the end of his story, whether he was dead or alive.

Bingo! The point of the ending wasn't whether Spike physically died or not. It was all about how he needed to move on from his past, in a way.

Likewise, with Kill La Kill, the ending is the conclusion of Ryuko's story. She had her complete character arc, and the writers did what they wanted to in order to fulfill a complete story-line. What this special proves is that, there is really no point to a new series because there is nothing left to tell, and Imaishi and Trigger can move onto different works that they can actually be passionate about, rather than being forced to continue something that they already feel that they have satisfactorily finished just because it's popular.

I mean, Kill la Kill's ending isn't particularly definitive, but you can tell that Trigger is done with the characters and universe. A forced second season would just cheapen the appeal of the original series.

It reminds me of some of the reviews for Winter Soldier that were criticizing it because "Well, you just know Cap won't die so there's no tension!"

I don't know who watches action movies (or any, really) solely to see if the protagonist will live. I enjoy stories to wonder if the protagonist will succeed over the villain. To me that's the more important goal.

Yeah, exactly. A good writer can create tension without having the main characters be threatened by death. And sometimes living can be worse than dying.

Excellent write-up, Foggle. While I enjoyed the OVA more than I did the final episode, I completely understand where you're coming from.

I actually liked the OVA more than the final episode too. Thematically, at the very least.

I've seen more than my fair share of people wishing there favorite series would never end, that there would be more sequels and spin-offs starring the characters they've grown so attached to, but for me the end is the end, and that's all there is to it.

That's what fanfiction is for!

I swear to god that I've heard Kubo say that Bleach Gould be ending soon for years, now. It's now 2014 and....yep, it's still going. But I'm still assured that it's "almost" over. Go figure.

I actually thought Bleach was over for the longest time since he first said that shit like five years ago, or something.

Now let's see if Attack on Titan actually ends in three years like the creator says it will...

Man, Foggle, I can imagine that writing about this was very cathartic for you. Brilliant write-up. I agree the OVA does feel unnecessary to some extent, since it doesn't add anything to the ending or story of the series, but at the same time, I don't think it was meant to. As it is, despite being the technical last episode, it's not the end of the series canonically, since the events of this OVA take place sometime after the battle with Ragyo but before the final scenes of the last episode (evidenced by how Satsuki gets the short hair-cut we see her have at the end of #24 at the end of this OVA). Ultimately, the OVA just serves as one last hurrah for the series, and to make the point you highlighted in your write-up: things can't stay the same forever, and we must move-on. Obviously, they could probably extend KLK if they really wanted without as much problem since the ending is more open to new possibilities than those of series like CB or NGE, but the core character arcs and central conflict of the series have already been resolved, and there is nothing more we need to see with these characters, and nothing left to explore otherwise, and thus the ending should remain just that, and I think they recognize this. Good for them, and us all, I say. It's better a series go off while in it's prime and having resolved it's purpose, rather then pointlessly continue for the sake of it.

Yeah, it was really cathartic for me. Of course, OVAs rarely are supposed to add anything to the TV series they're a part of, but I think this one kind of took that idea and ran with it to make a point. And definitely, I'd rather have a good show end before its time than see it dragged out forever and ruined.

[LumRanmaYasha]

I swear to god that I've heard Kubo say that Bleach Gould be ending soon for years, now. It's now 2014 and....yep, it's still going. But I'm still assured that it's "almost" over. Go figure.

I actually thought Bleach was over for the longest time since he first said that shit like five years ago, or something.

Now let's see if Attack on Titan actually ends in three years like the creator says it will...

On the subject of Bleach, Kubo said the current arc would be the final one when it started three years ago...but he also said that he could keep it going for TEN years if he had it in him. So...y'know. I do think Jump actually is pushing for Kubo to pick up the pace and aim to finish it sooner than later nowadays, but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes another year or two for it to actually end.

[Dr. Insomniac]

Korra blogging returns with more of my random tirades on politics.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Good write-up, as usual. The set-up for this season has all of the pieces set in place to make for something really interesting. Now, let's just hope that they can deliver on it in full force, seeing as how this is the last animated season of Avatar that we will ever likely get (after which point the story will continue in the comics).

[Spark Of Spirit]

Good article, doctor. It's such a shame they don't air this show on TV anymore.

[Foggle]

Part 1 of the fall clusterfuck is finally here... http://animationrevelation.com/readables/?p=3222

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Good job everyone!

Some great shows this season.

[LumRanmaYasha]

Great job, y'all!   

This is a pretty good season. I found a dozen shows I'm willing to try and keep up with. That's pretty rare, and I can easily see myself sticking with at least half of those all the way through to the end.