The Legend of Zelda Series

[talonmalon333]

I think it's far less brutal and unforgiving than many NES games.

Other than the completely broken games, I disagree.

Really? Other than the "Game Over, Go Back to the Start" issue, I don't think it's brutal at all.

[talonmalon333]

But anyway, as for AoL overall, I kind of think it's underrated. I like it just as much as the original Zelda, but in its own way. I guess I just find the combat and leveling-up system to be really satisfying.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I just beat Oracle of Ages. Man, Veran was pretty damn easy. I was kind of disappointed that she really required no clever strategy to beat. Basically you could just hit her with your sword or any kinds of seeds from the seed shooter and it would do damage to her. I guess I shouldn't be complaining since it could have been worse and been a frustratingly hard boss fight, but sometimes I feel like when the final boss is a cakewalk, it makes an otherwise great game feel a bit anticlimactic. Either way, though, the overall quality of the game is still great, and this along with Seasons makes up my favorite 2D Zelda game to date.

Speaking of which, I need to move onto Seasons next, which I plan on starting tomorrow. Also, I wanted to bring up the Zelda time-line for a moment. I remember Nintendo officially saying that Oracle of Ages and Seasons could take place one after the other, and either case would work out based on which one you played first. That said, I've decided to come to my own personal conclusion and say that I think Seasons would most likely take place after Ages. First off, part of Ages by default HAS to take place before Seasons due to the time-travel gimmick in which you go hundreds of years in the past, so on that note ages can either only take place in-between the past and present of Ages or after it, and to me taking place after the whole time-travel debacle makes the most sense, as I swear having the same link go on a time-travel adventure that takes place before and after another major adventure is has to be some sort of set-up for a paradox to start up. That said, the other reason I think of Seasons as the sequel to Ages, story-wise, is because Twinrova is only revealed at the very end of Ages, whereas they are seen scheming starting from the very beginning of Seasons, and I like to interpret that as them plotting their next attack after having Veran defeated by Link in Ages. At the end of ages they indicate that they still got what they wanted out of Veran because she had disrupted the time-stream enough to still have some ensuing disorder retained even after he demise. It felt like Twinrova had some bigger goal in mind, and in Ages they acted like they had just carried out phase 1 of their plan, whereas in Seasons you tend to get the feeling that they are already in the middle of some grand master plan that had already been started (and in that regard I of course interpret Ages at the beginning). At any rate, that's the conclusion that I have come to based on my own speculation.

Having said that, I only have one gripe right now, and that's figuring out just how the fuck I'm supposed to enter that full code that I got at the end of the game to go to Holodrum. The code is 20 digits long, but the code box only ever allows me to enter in 5 digits at a time. Whenever I press the space button on letter-box screen, it just overwrites whatever the I had in the 5th slot of space. I can't believe that, of all things, a stupid password screen is giving me the biggest amount of trouble.

[talonmalon333]

I just beat Oracle of Ages. Man, Veran was pretty damn easy. I was kind of disappointed that she really required no clever strategy to beat. Basically you could just hit her with your sword or any kinds of seeds from the seed shooter and it would do damage to her. I guess I shouldn't be complaining since it could have been worse and been a frustratingly hard boss fight, but sometimes I feel like when the final boss is a cakewalk, it makes an otherwise great game feel a bit anticlimactic. Either way, though, the overall quality of the game is still great, and this along with Seasons makes up my favorite 2D Zelda game to date.

When I played Ages as a kid, I actually struggled a decent amount with Veran. But when I finally replayed it last year, I didn't have too much trouble. So I agree there. If I remember correctly, Onox is a bit harder though.

That said, the other reason I think of Seasons as the sequel to Ages, story-wise, is because Twinrova is only revealed at the very end of Ages, whereas they are seen scheming starting from the very beginning of Seasons, and I like to interpret that as them plotting their next attack after having Veran defeated by Link in Ages. At the end of ages they indicate that they still got what they wanted out of Veran because she had disrupted the time-stream enough to still have some ensuing disorder retained even after he demise. It felt like Twinrova had some bigger goal in mind, and in Ages they acted like they had just carried out phase 1 of their plan, whereas in Seasons you tend to get the feeling that they are already in the middle of some grand master plan that had already been started (and in that regard I of course interpret Ages at the beginning).

If you play Seasons and then link to Ages, those events go differently.

Having said that, I only have one gripe right now, and that's figuring out just how the fuck I'm supposed to enter that full code that I got at the end of the game to go to Holodrum. The code is 20 digits long, but the code box only ever allows me to enter in 5 digits at a time. Whenever I press the space button on letter-box screen, it just overwrites whatever the I had in the 5th slot of space. I can't believe that, of all things, a stupid password screen is giving me the biggest amount of trouble.

Are you trying to implement the code in the Maku Tree? I think you need to create a file in Oracle of Seasons first, and enter the password in that game upon starting a file.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Oh, I see. I guess that makes sense, but it still doesn't explain why I'm only allowed to enter 5 digits at a time.

And as for my timeline theory, I still stick by my opinion that it just makes more sense for Seasons to take place after Ages because of the whole time-travel debacle. It just makes it feel weird to know that this version of Link has a major adventure in-between another major adventure, rather than before or after it. There's that, and also the fact that if Link could travel through time, why not go back to Holodrum, travel back in time, and leave tons of useful items in a safe spot that he knows he'll come uncover in his Seasons journey which would basically allow him to clear the rest of his quest there with ease and have all the power he needs to stop Veran before she even has a chance to get away with Nayru's body into the past and disrupt the time-stream? If he had already completed his quest for Ages by the time he got to Seasons, then he couldn't really do anything at that point and it would just make sense that he would go through the standard procedure and go through every obstacle in his way while re-collecting items from scratch just to defeat Onox and restore the Temple of Seasons back to normal.

[talonmalon333]

Oh, I see. I guess that makes sense, but it still doesn't explain why I'm only allowed to enter 5 digits at a time.

Assuming you tried entering the password inside of the Maku Tree, that place is intended for smaller "secrets" (such as making certain items appear in the other game) which, if I remember correctly, only require 5 digits.

It might have something to do with the game's coding. When linking to the second quest, the linked game might need such an overhaul that it requires 20 digits, or something like that.

And as for my timeline theory, I still stick by my opinion that it just makes more sense for Seasons to take place after Ages because of the whole time-travel debacle. It just makes it feel weird to know that this version of Link has a major adventure in-between another major adventure, rather than before or after it. There's that, and also the fact that if Link could travel through time, why not go back to Holodrum, travel back in time, and leave tons of useful items in a safe spot that he knows he'll come uncover in his Seasons journey which would basically allow him to clear the rest of his quest there with ease and have all the power he needs to stop Veran before she even has a chance to get away with Nayru's body into the past and disrupt the time-stream? If he had already completed his quest for Ages by the time he got to Seasons, then he couldn't really do anything at that point and it would just make sense that he would go through the standard procedure and go through every obstacle in his way while re-collecting items from scratch just to defeat Onox and restore the Temple of Seasons back to normal.

Makes sense. And on top of that, if I remember correctly, there's also some in-game evidence that makes Ages ---> Seasons seem a bit more logical (which I won't state yet, since you're in the process of replaying the games).

[talonmalon333]

So I think I've decided on a favorites order on the Zelda games, from best to worst.

1. Majora's Mask
2. Ocarina of Time
3. Twilight Princess
4. The Wind Waker
5. A Link to the Past
6. Link's Awakening
7. Oracle of Ages
8. Oracle of Seasons
9. The Legend of Zelda
10. Skyward Sword
11. The Adventure of Link
12. The Minish Cap
13. Spirit Tracks
14. Four Swords Adventures
15. Four Swords
16. Phantom Hourglass

I do have to say, while none of these games are bad, the last few are games that I can't ever see myself going back and playing through again. Though with Zelda II it has more to do with the difficulty. Minish Cap, on the other hand, is good. But I just don't think it's nearly as good as Link's Awakening or the Oracle games.

The last four in particular are the weakest links. But as far as DS Zelda goes, Phantom Hourglass is the greater evil, and the only Zelda that falls below "adequate" and is just rather mediocre with few redeeming qualities.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Honestly, I still really want to experience the Four Swords games someday, but the reason I'll probably never get the chance to play them is because I don't have any friends.

Well, what I mean is that I don't have any friends to play a co-op game like that with me, which is one thing I really detest about mandatory co-op games.

[talonmalon333]

Honestly, I still really want to experience the Four Swords games someday, but the reason I'll probably never get the chance to play them is because I don't have any friends.

Well, what I mean is that I don't have any friends to play a co-op game like that with me, which is one thing I really detest about mandatory co-op games.

If you ever get a 3DS, I really hope they bring back Four Swords to it (which, if I remember correctly, has online multiplayer which should make it more convenient). It was on the 3DS Virtual Console for a few months for free, but they eventually took it off. I have no idea why. I mean, why can't they just bring it back, but sell it for $5 or something. Four Swords is the hardest game in the whole series to even ever get a chance to play, so I don't understand Nintendo's decision.

At the very least, Four Swords Adventures isn't mandatory co-op, and its single player mode is perfectly fine. Then again, the 3DS version of Four Swords had a single player mode as well, but that one was awful since the game was made 100% for multiplayer.

Also, some of you guys should try to make your own favorites lists (or tiers, if that's easier).

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I'll do one after I'm done replaying all of the classic 2D Zelda games (though obviously I can't rank TP, SS, or either of the DS games, since I don't have the means to play any of those games). I could make a list right now as I've played every other Zelda canon Zelda game in at least some quantity, but I won't to replay everything anyways to gauge my impressions on each game as accurately as possible.

[Nel_Annette]

You know, for the longest time, Ages was my favorite game, but I think the only reason I put that one over Seasons was because it was the one I owned, while I had only rented Seasons once or twice. Replaying them, they might switch places. Right now, the conclusions I'm coming to (almost done with Seasons, will revisit Ages for the first time right after as a linked game):

-Ages has the better story. In Seasons, everything with Din and Onox happens right at the start, and after that, you're pretty much just left going place to place, with one of the Twinrova sisters stopping to talk to you once before dungeon six, and a few little story arcs taking place in Subrosia between each dungeon, but only half of those deal with getting into the Temple of Seasons. In Ages (from what I remember), there's all that great stuff with the Black Tower being built throughout the game, that guy (Ralph?) being Ambi's descendant, and saving Nayru almost halfway through the game, and dealing with Ambi's possession after.

-As a result, I actually kind of like Veran as a villain more than Onox. Just feels like she's in the plot more.

-Seasons has a better overworld and gimmick. I just don't like how half of Labrynna is ocean, and the mountain sections are far more annoying. Traveling through time has been done before. Seeing places change throughout the seasons was more interesting.

-Seasons has better items. I'll take things like the Roc's Cape, seed slingshot, and regular flippers over the level 2 power bracelet, seed shooter and the obnoxious movement method of the mermaid suit any day.

-I can't decide which I dislike more, Seasons' mandatory stealth sections or Ages' mandatory minigames.

Hoping to beat Seasons tonight. When I start Ages, it will be the first time I've ever used it as the linked second game, so I'm excited for that. And I'll be able to go over what I wrote here and see what holds up and what doesn't.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

The funny thing is, I replayed and beat Ages just a week ago, and I'm in the middle of my replay of Seasons in a linked game. Seasons was always the one I preferred, but keep in mind this was only slightly, as I love both games. I pretty much agree with everything you said, though. Ages definitely has the better and more involving story. But I'm more of a gameplay guy, and while Ages has terrific gameplay, I just feel that Seasons had slightly better design. I liked the gimmick better because it was new and as you've said, the whole time travel thing has been done in games before (though, that's not to take away from Ages's great use of the gimmick). Its just that the Seasons felt like a more interesting way in which to manipulate the world around you. And as for the items, once again, I agree. I think Seasons just had the better and more interesting assortment. One thing I didn't like about Ages is that it tends to merely just give you upgrades of items you already got from previous dungeons. Like, having the stronger power gloves from the final dungeon, just felt disappointing, as all I could really do now was lift heavier objects, and I like having new mechanics introduced into the game. Its a reason why I love the magnetic gloves from Seasons. Its a unique item that really added in a fun new gameplay mechanic which could be used for both puzzles and platforming.

As for everything else about both games, though, I think they are pretty on par. They both use all of the same normal enemies, and the boss fights for each are pretty hit or miss. I still like to count these games together as my favorite 2D Zelda game.

[Nel_Annette]

Same here, which is why visiting them so long after playing them (and declaring them together as one of my favorite games of all time) is so interesting.

Somehow, my dumb ass wound up with Moosh's flute, which sucks because he is easily the worset of the three animals (and has the worst unique area). I wanted Dimitri so bad.

Those goddamn power gloves have got to be the most disappointing items in the Oracle games, especially that late in. It would've been great if the Roc's Cape carried over.

I'm thinking Seasons might top Ages, but as I've said, I've got to replay it. But compared to my two plays of Seasons, I've played Ages about three times as much, so I "think" I've got a good enough memory of it to make those judgements.

If there's anything I've still got to compare, it's the dungeons and bosses. I have gotten lost in at least three of Seasons' dungeons, but the only boss that's really given me trouble is Digdogger.  Guess it'll depend on how many times I yell "bullshit!" at the screen and nearly throw the system. Just as it was 12 years ago. lol

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

Somehow, my dumb ass wound up with Moosh's flute, which sucks because he is easily the worset of the three animals (and has the worst unique area). I wanted Dimitri so bad.

I actually got Dimitri's flute on my current play-through of these games, which I attained in Ages first, and it indirectly carried over to Seasons on my linked game, in which he gave it to me once I met him again. I remember back when I played Seasons years ago, I actually got Ricky's flute instead.

I'm thinking Seasons might top Ages, but as I've said, I've got to replay it. But compared to my two plays of Seasons, I've played Ages about three times as much, so I "think" I've got a good enough memory of it to make those judgements.

Having just replayed all of Ages, myself, I can safely say that I still prefer Seasons, but like I said, on the whole its still pretty close.

[Nel_Annette]

And I rediscovered my severe loathing for Keese.