The Legend of Zelda Series

[Spark Of Spirit]

By the way, I'm left wondering about this game's ending...

Spoiler

Exactly how did Ganon die? I mean, it was by the Master Sword. However, in each game, we've seen that the Master Sword alone doesn't have the strength to kill him when he's in possession of the Triforce. It was established early on back in ALttP and has remained true since then. In fact, I'll go over his deaths in each game.

LoZ: Killed by the Silver Arrows, which were established from the beginning to have the power to kill Ganon.

ALttP: Killed by the Silver Arrows, though this time it took multiple arrows to kill him instead of one, which could maybe be attributed to the fact that Ganon is powered by the complete Triforce in this game, whereas he only had the Triforce of Power in LoZ.

OoT: Not killed in this game. Merely sealed away.

OoS/OoA: Killed by regular weapons, but in this game, it was revealed that this was just a shell of Ganon and that the ritual to revive him failed, so him being killed by regular weapons isn't much of a big deal.

WW: Stabbed in the head by the Master Sword alone, but it was after losing the Triforce of Power. So, at that point, he was completely mortal, thus making it impossible for him to survive that sword blow.

TP: Stabbed by the Master Sword in the wound that was inflicted by the Sages long ago. The sword alone probably wasn't enough to kill him, but the Sages created a massive weak spot on him that probably made him able to be killed easier.

In ALBW, Link destroys him with the Master Sword, and that's about it. Not to mention, in this game, Ganon had both the Triforce of Power and the Triforce of Wisdom, plus he had merged with Yuga's strength. So, in this game, he should have been stronger than he was in any game except ALttP.

And on that note, it's weird how Yuga Ganon didn't seem all that powerful despite possessing two Triforce parts. He mostly just shot small energy balls out and hid in the walls. Technically, as I said above, this should be Ganon's 2nd most powerful version in the entire series.

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Spoiler

Yuga was Ganon's only link to the world. That was why he was able to be risen back up and that was why he left, because Yuga died. He was only going to be back as long as his host was in one piece. Link simply destroyed Yuga which in turn killed Ganon again. As you know, nobody has ever brought Ganon back this way before so maybe that's why it didn't work out for him this time. He wasn't technically whole here, regardless of how the game's graphics look.

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Either way, that's why he isn't quite the same as he is in ALTTP or the original game.

[talonmalon333]

Spoiler

I do have to repeat that it seemed like Yuga Ganon really wasn't that important to the overall game. Ganon in particular, for the first time in his career, was just a tool because Yuga wanted to get ultimate power in some way. But in the game's ending, Yuga Ganon wasn't the center of the attention, and his defeat was so silent and swift, and afterward was kind of pushed aside. I suppose you could maybe call Hilda the game's true antagonist as she was the one who is responsible for the scheme and was giving orders to Yuga and Link. It wasn't until the very end when Yuga decided he got everything he needed from her and took charge. If so, then she'd have to be one of the franchises more unique antagonists, as most of them were just power hungry monsters or servants of Ganon. But she was just a caring, yet reckless, ruler who was seeking to save her kingdom without completely thinking through the consequences, and in the end, she realized her mistakes. I'm glad she wasn't a boss fight, as I would've felt bad having to fight her.

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[RacattackForce]

Spoiler

I do have to repeat that it seemed like Yuga Ganon really wasn't that important to the overall game. Ganon in particular, for the first time in his career, was just a tool because Yuga wanted to get ultimate power in some way. But in the game's ending, Yuga Ganon wasn't the center of the attention, and his defeat was so silent and swift, and afterward was kind of pushed aside. I suppose you could maybe call Hilda the game's true antagonist as she was the one who is responsible for the scheme and was giving orders to Yuga and Link. It wasn't until the very end when Yuga decided he got everything he needed from her and took charge. If so, then she'd have to be one of the franchises more unique antagonists, as most of them were just power hungry monsters or servants of Ganon. But she was just a caring, yet reckless, ruler who was seeking to save her kingdom without completely thinking through the consequences, and in the end, she realized her mistakes. I'm glad she wasn't a boss fight, as I would've felt bad having to fight her.

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I think that A Link Between Worlds has a major problem in how the story was done. I just completed the game the other day, and I'm working towards 100% completion right now, and I found myself disappointed by the end game. It just felt kinda rushed. While the game attempted to solve the problem of Skyward Sword's linearity, it lost the fantastic storytelling that that title had.

Spoiler

Hilda's slow reveal of not having totally pure intentions through cutscenes that took place after some dungeons made for a nice bit of dramatic irony when it was discovered that she was the title's true antagonist. And replaying the game would make this fact even more clear (remember Yuga's dialogue during the pre-Lorule encounters). But the reveal of Ravio as Link's Lorule equivalent? That wasn't done very well in terms of foreshadowing. But more importantly, those final minutes do something that could have been easily done throughout the Lorule sections of the game; explain the crux of the story using the environment and interaction with NPCs. The writers at EAD have done it in previous Zelda games, so why not here? While Hilda's self-justifications for her actions could (and had to) be done during that finale, explaining why Lorule had become so screwed up could have been done better if while you explored, people other than the old Philosopher gave insight on the past of the region. Maybe I was missing something with the Bird/Monster group in Thieves Town, but they didn't really shed light on anything. The Vacant House does hint at Ravio's identity, but it only does it well in Hero Mode, where you find a journal talking about Hilda's plans. Why couldn't that also be in the Normal Mode? Also, I felt there was a lost opportunity for something grander for Ravio; such as Link failing in his battle with Yuga!Ganon and Ravio coming in to protect and assist him in a fashion reminiscent of Wind Waker's final battle.

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P.S. - Try getting all Streetpass challenges done. You get a nice side-story treat if you do. (Yeah, I spoiled myself on that. Not going to spoil you, though. Also spoiled myself on what happens if you reach 999.99 seconds/16.5 minutes in Endless Mode of the Cucco game. Not worth it, but it's a thing I'm trying to do while on the subway to school and back.)

[talonmalon333]

I do agree that I would've liked ALBW to have a better story. That's probably the only category SS beats it in. That game had the really well done relationship between Link and Zelda at its heart, which made the first hour of the game very pleasing to go through when it should have been very mundane.

Spoiler

It did kind of seem like Ravio being Lorule's Link was sort of like a twist that existed just for the sake of being a twist, even though I liked it to a certain extent. And overall, yeah, the execution of the story could've been handled better, but again, I can understand that Nintendo put less importance in it because they wanted to develop the gameplay. But I'd like to see them excel at both in the Wii U game.

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[Spark Of Spirit]

Corridor games tend to have more involving stories since there's only one direction the story can be funneled down. But I really had no problem with ALBW's story.

[talonmalon333]

Corridor games tend to have more involving stories since there's only one direction the story can be funneled down. But I really had no problem with ALBW's story.

I disagree (and it goes back to our story discussion a week ago). MM had a better and more involving story than any other game in the series, and it was less funneled than any game since it (except ALBW).

[Spark Of Spirit]

Corridor games tend to have more involving stories since there's only one direction the story can be funneled down. But I really had no problem with ALBW's story.

I disagree (and it goes back to our story discussion a week ago). MM had a better and more involving story than any other game in the series, and it was less funneled than any game since it (except ALBW).

I said "tend to", that's why movie games are a thing. If they weren't on-rails, they wouldn't have such an emphasis on story.

[talonmalon333]

Also, just to be clear, I didn't dislike ALBW's story. I just don't think it was one of the better storylines in the series.

[talonmalon333]

So, with ALBW done, I can make a favorite Zelda list.

MM
OoT
TP
WW
ALttP
LA
ALBW
OoA
AoL
OoS
MC
LoZ
SS
ST
FSA
FS
PH

It lands in the middle of the Zelda tier (though closer to the top than to the bottom), and that's a quality level that I think any game would love to be.

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

So, Hyrule Warriors is finally out and general reception unanimously agrees that it's just another DW game, but with lots of Zelda fan-service. If you love Zelda's mythos and don't mind a game where you just mash buttons without any thought, then you'll probably love this game. As for me, I'll still wait in futility for my dream Zelda game to come out.

In the meanwhile, I still have at least 2 good Zelda games to catch-up with when I finally have money to buy new stuff (TP and ALBW, of course).

[talonmalon333]

So, Hyrule Warriors is finally out and general reception unanimously agrees that it's just another DW game, but with lots of Zelda fan-service. If you love Zelda's mythos and don't mind a game where you just mash buttons without any thought, then you'll probably love this game. As for me, I'll still wait in futility for my dream Zelda game to come out.

In the meanwhile, I still have at least 2 good Zelda games to catch-up with when I finally have money to buy new stuff (TP and ALBW, of course).

What's your dream Zelda? Hyule Warriors must be the first game of the Zelda brand to have gotten mixed reception from critics.

[Foggle]

What's your dream Zelda? Hyule Warriors must be the first game of the Zelda brand to have gotten mixed reception from critics.

I assume one that has a combat system like the first two Xbox Ninja Gaiden games.

[Nel_Annette]

If you love Zelda's mythos and don't mind a game where you just mash buttons without any thought, then you'll probably love this game.

*raises hand* 

[Dr. Ensatsu-ken]

I'm sure that the game will sell well, regardless off critical reception. Nintendo knows what they're doing, in that regard.

Admittedly, I'd probably rent this game just for the fan-service if I had a Wii-U, but I certainly couldn't see myself coming back to it for more than a single playthrough.

And as for my dream Zelda game, Foggle pretty much has the idea down, though truthfully it doesn't even need to have a super deep combat system. Metal Gear Rising has relatively very simple combat, but it's designed so well, and with enough nuance, that it's just so damn fun to keep playing and replaying over and over again. If you could just give me a Zelda game with combat as good as that, while not skimping out on the quality of the puzzles and side-quests, then it'd basically be my favorite game ever, by far.

[talonmalon333]

I'd also like to see Zelda have a really awesome world to explore (better than what we've gotten so far), and it looks like they are trying to pull that off with Zelda Wii U, which I'm sure will eclipse Hyrule Warriors.

I'm looking forward to the day you finally play TP and ALBW, E-K. A lot of people here don't seem to be fans of TP, and there are some that haven't played it despite having the means to do so (don't worry, Foggle, I won't name any names ), but I feel like you'll like it a lot. And of course, anyone here who's played ALBW knows it's awesome.